Westminster has made it clear it won't let Wales or Scotland go – so what now for their indy movements?

'Westminster' (i.e. the UK regime) is an elitist, imperialist, corrupt system that is bullying us. What Liz Truss and Lord Frost have shown is that they have the mentality that they have some kind of 'divine right' to rule over other countries, and that we must comply and not dare to challenge. We are now the victims of bullying. Plain and simple. Just as Ireland, India, Nigeria, South Africa and many others have been, we are also victims of their imperialist bullying. I don't think we should be afraid to call them out for what they are, say to them that they are nothing but bullies and insist that we will not be bullied! I am Welsh and they will NEVER take that off me.

There are many different ways this could go. There is no set template. A violent act of hubris set Ireland on its way. An empire collapsing set the Baltics free. Czechoslovakia ended in a peaceful separation. Other states emerged from populist responses to economic inequality. We must also think on the likelihood that Labour will form the next government which will change the dynamic in this situation. There is no doubt in my mind that the moribund UK is being rocked by crisis after crisis. In each crisis successive governments be they Labour, Conservative or even with a little help from the Liberals have proven themselves both inept and worse, unwilling to meaningfully reform the UK. Things are so bad, the Tories having hacked away at the foundations of British society, that I can only see more crises arising. As this cost of living crisis intensifies the NHS will buckle as living conditions worsen health outcomes and hurl overwhelming pressure at the service the Tories have done so much to destroy. Public discontent will go through the roof. I fully expect to see, strikes, civil disobedience and even riots. I suggest folk read Tom Nairn's "The Break up of Britain." We're in for a rough ride people. But I think the UK is in its death throes quite frankly. It's time for all of us to plan for what comes after.

How can all those cheerleaders of Brexit Tories, clueless Andrew RT Davies included, who argued leaving the European Union was Britain "taking back control" citing all those faceless unelected bureaucrats in Strasbourg & Brussels, when since Boris Johnson's reign of dumbness occured in 2019, has meant Whitehall has not only hijacked Wales EU powers that should have been returned to Cardiff Bay not London as they were part of areas already devolved, have also interfered, used threats & intimidation towards our Senedd Cymru, doubted Welsh Government competency, indicated their intention to dissolve the 2017, Wales Trade Union Act, that protected striking Welsh workers. Also, they have cynically without consultation taking Welsh Government administrative powers with their 'Shared Prosperity Fund' that replaced our once 'EU Structual Funding' because Whitehall had underfunded and neglected Welsh communities & infrastructure so much we qualified three times. And the £375 million annually received has meant in real terms the loss of £235 million to communities in the most deprived areas of Wales. Hypocrisy personified! And now this Conservative clown Lord Frost. And If indeed tinpot Tory Liz Truss is elected Monday as PM, and as indicated will include this unelected former Brexit negotiator in her new cabinet, a man who recently stated that both Wales & Scotland are not nations, and how he intends to put so many hurdles in the way of Scottish (or Welsh) independence that it's an impossible goal to achieve, who also wants to reverse devolution will not only result in public outrage but cause insurrection if ever acted upon.

It was never going to be easy leaving the Union - England and the Tories don't want to lose face. They'll always put their pride before our prosperity and freedom. So I think for the moment the best thing we can all do is focus on how we can be successful as an independent country, work on how we can address the pitfalls. Yes, there will be major challenges. Then sell our thought and ideas to the rest of the Welsh public. In other words, ignore Westminster and focus on how we can flourish independently. Bring the people on side and independence will come no matter what Westminster does.

I think that the actions of Westminster since Brexit, combined with recent statements from Frost and Truss will weaken the union, not strengthen it. A supreme example of a stratergy backfiring. The only question is "how long?"

Jack Frost and co will soon be gone so we need to focus on supporting a coalition of the willing across all psrties to help move Wales & Scotland forward. General T and her new chums will have their honey moon month before the Winter disasters come. She will hope for a late Spring election before Bojo and the Boys try a come back. Dominic Raab is fast becoming the new Jack Staw - able to see that the game is moving towards a close - many more in Blue / Red Wall seats will see how current local authority by elections are going - 90 per cent Tory losses….over the last 6 months.

Its all about profit and resources. That is what needs to be made clear to voters. There is no sentiment from these people, this isn't unfriending someone on Facebook, we can still be friends. But we should get to decide our own matters.

UK Government isn't just attacking option of independence they're also attacking Celtic Nations (and any form of devolved government) by over-reaching their influence and generally removing needed support in time of high crisis. They're also making the UK an inward and spiteful place to live. What's next for indy-movements? Show people that better economics, better support for communities, better soft-support is found in indy-movements and people will find reasons to join in.

Clinging to what they see as a God given right to govern and dictate to the Celts, this crumbling union of unequal parts is all they have left. Still wanting to be seen as a major power and a country of influence, the English establishment now openly try to rig elections that may go against their will. Only willing to see democracy as a thing exclusively for England, the rest can rot. Ridicule and insult is all they offer the 3 Celtic nations, while claiming they keep these country's afloat. The most telling thing of all is, despite all the name calling and looking down the nose at the Celts, they know that without us, they are nothing, and it is this desperate state that leads them to this final throw of the dice, make leaving impossible to try and save some sort of Englisg version of dignity. The time has come for us to leave, and let them wallow in self pity.

The UK is like an old star running out of hydrogen fuel in its core. Hydrogen fusing to helium provides the energy source for stars on the main sequence, for a star such as the Sun this can continue for 10 billion years, however once the hydrogen is depleted, the star starts fusing helium into carbon. This is a less effective and stable energy source, so the core becomes somewhat unstable. Instability in the core puts it into disequlibrium with its outer layers, which expand turning the star in a red giant. In some stars, the outer layers will pulsate and the star will be variable in brightness either regularly or chaotically. It seems as if the UK is in this unstable variable phase at present. Depending on the mass of the star, it will either puff off its outer layers gently, contract to be a white dwarf and slowly fade, or else have an increasingly unstable set of fusion reactions in the core, resulting in the end a core collapse and supernova.

Please be clear about the facts. You do a disservice to your readers by comparing/equating Liz Truss' intention to legislate that 'closer to 60% of voters will have to go for 'yes' before the result is binding' with the '52% [being the] will of the people' in the Brexit referendum. The comparison here should be between the 60% of all eligible voters required to vote 'yes' in an independence referendum and the just under 26% of all eligible voters who voted 'yes' in the Brexit referendum. Please choose your numbers (and words) with care, and do not perpetuate the myth of this false statistic

Great observation. Westminster can keep moving the goalposts until we pick up our ball and go home. Their neglect of Wales and Scotland will eventually break the Union and it will be their fault not ours. Their attack on all of our rights will deliver our Independence without the need for all this unedifying begging the master for a referendum. What we should be doing now is enshrining Welsh and Scottish nationality so that it is on all documents which carry that such as passports, electoral roll, flag on driving licence etc. We must ‘use it or lose it’ so to speak. Quote nationality as Welsh/Scottish and demand our Parliaments action this.

So a 50% of the electorate at 2019 general election had only 9 constituencies with a truly representative MP and they are: Bootle, Labour, Turnout 65.7%, Electorate share 52.2% Garston and Halewood, Labour, Turnout 70.1%, Electorate share 50.7% Knowsley, Labour, Turnout 65.3%, Electorate share 52.7% Liverpool Riverside, Labour, Turnout 65.7%, Electorate share 51.2% Liverpool Walton, Labour, Turnout 65.1% Electorate share 55.1% Liverpool West Derby, Labour, Turnout 67.0%, Electorate share 52.0% Maldon, Conservative, Turnout 69.6% Electorate share 50.1% Rayleigh and Wickford, Conservative, Turnout 69.5%, Electorate share 50.5% Walthamstow, Labour, Turnout 68.8%, Electorate share 52.4%

Once the majority of Scots decide they want independence then it will happen. What's the other option, a Catalan-style crackdown? Good luck with that in the middle of Glasgow.

I agree with I.M.J. There is one Englishman who has been predicitng this crisis for years. The sanctions rebound from Russia may accelerate things. How to prepare, though?

Frosty the No-man.

Sorry, but this is a rather irresponsible article which essentially concludes that as Westminster will put up stiff resistance, the independence movements are doomed to failure and shouldn't bother. No one with half a brain believes that the UK is a "voluntary" union; it is a means of exposing Westminster's lies. Does this author have any grasp of history?? Whether by war or democracy, the UK has not been able to hold on to any country where it does not command majority support. Without majority support, those countries would not have been able to win independence through either conflict or democracy. I could cite numerous examples - The United States, India, Ireland and Malta to name a few. No one wants armed conflict, but the rationale and outcome is the same - victory resulting in independence through war or democracy. Obviously, we want to achieve it through democracy and we should strive to do so, but when support reaches 50% and higher, the result is that governing that country becomes increasingly difficult. With an overwhelming majority of SNP MPs in Holyrood and Westminster, I would argue that Scotland is already approaching the point where the relationship with the rest of the UK is starting to break down. You already have an SNP majority government that is increasingly at odds with Westminster. If the latter continues to treat Scotland with contempt, something will eventually give, possibly through a de facto independence referendum culminating in a UDI which will eventually lead to a complete breakdown of relations. You simply cannot have a functioning sovereign country in such circumstances. Similarly, in Wales, we might be behind Scotland and we do have a pro-unionist government (for now), but it is ideologically very different to the Westminster government or even its' own parent party. And so, we find ourselves slowly treading the same path as Scotland, buoyed by a government and electorate that is becoming increasingly at odds with Westminster. Let's continue this path and see where it takes us.