Shocking Facebook posts prove 20mph row is the most toxic issue since devolution began

I look forward to seeing Andrew RT Davies on the stand charged with incitement to violence followed by his morally bankrupt cohorts who remain silent on the grounds of ‘I was just following orders Guv’. We’ve heard all that somewhere before haven’t we? The higher the signature figure goes on this petition, the more meaningless it gets.

Very good article Martin, we’ll done

This has been inflated for effect. This is what I expect from Mr Davies. This is what there are prepared to do at elections.

Such a trustworthy man.

As I have already stated, like it or not - This is the poll tax moment for Plaid/Labour.

Excellent article. There needs to be better governance of social media when threats and intimidatory tactics are considered an acceptable method of expression. Recent accounts of damage to signs show how things can quickly escalate out of control. We can only hope that the police are taking appropriate measures to prevent this happening. Having recently travelled within towns across the border it seems that 20mph is accepted without question in many places without any apparent dissention. The Tory right wing press has a lot to answer for in stirring up anti Welsh Government propaganda!

“accident rates will increase slightly,”. No, no they won’t.

Reduced collisions, injuries and an increase in numbers of children walking to school for example have been shown to accompany the lowering limits to 20mph. The research was done in Bristol where lower limits were introduced a few years before Covid. "generally speaking, accident rates will increase slightly, for various reasons, " You've mentioned this before without elaborating . What is your source? As an "accredited automotive journalist that has researched the topic extensively" you'll no doubt have the source to hand. "same manure, different shovel." Better not to assume glibness is the answer but put some effort into determining how much manure is on each shovel.

The Welsh Tories have become a hate group who are using American Republican tactics of misinformation, disinformation and fake news to foster hostility as seen with Brexit that resulted in Labour MP Jo Cox being attacked and murdered by a far-right deranged Ukip supporter. See, it only takes one idiot to take things into his or her hands to confront and attack Welsh Government minister because Andrew RT Davies and other Welsh Tories have demonised those implementing policies which they oppose using Facebook, X (Twitter) or on other social media platforms to whip up those unstable into a frenzy. And as said recently. Both Andrew RT Davies and Gypsy hating David TC Davies are playing very dangerous games which could end tragically with their toxic Tory agenda. It's already happening with those damaging 20mph signs in Ceredigion and now physical threats are being made by Conservative supporters on social media towards Welsh Government ministers. No doubt this political pygmy will deny his part played like cowardly Donald Trump did with the attack on Capitol Hill riots. I find most right wingers always do. They use ignorance as their defence while omitting the part they played. He's below contempt, reckless, who should never be allowed to hold high office.

Dyma'r erthygl orau, yn fy nghof i, mae'r newyddiadurwr profiadol hwn wedi ei ysgrifennu. Ardderchog Mr Shipton

In a move that can only be seen as a deliberate act to stir up trouble, A R T Davies posted a photograph of Lee Waters , with the words " the man who imposed Labour's blanket speed limit" He then went on to claim it will cost the economy of Cymru £9billion. How low the leader of the Tory party in Cymru has sunk, and people claim we are a one party state, I wonder why, when this act shows the class, or lack of, of the opposition .

The leader of the Tory party in Wales has incited violence with his false accusations inciting violence against people is a criminal offence so why has Davies not been arrested there are nut jobs out there look at what happend to the Labour M P who was murdered by a RIGHT WING NUT JOB

I drove from Wrexham to Carmarthen last week and the 20mph makes hardly any difference to the time taken

Though I'm not sure 20mph is the right move, Welsh Tories are cosying up to some of those who previously rejected any covid measures and it's all getting a bit ugly. It doesn't mean the result they're pushing for is wrong but the process to get there is doing a disservice to our growing democracy. That being said, it could be argued that way this was brought it has done the same.

The least surprising element the 20mph thing is the violent rhetoric and criminality (destroying road signs) by the far-right and the nod and a wink given to these violent extremists by a Conservative party in Wales led by a man downplayed the far-right Washington riots of 2021 which resulted in four deaths. Have a look at the Twitter responses to news that Senedd members have received death threats because of this issue - most seemed to indicate that support for a 20mph default speed limit in Wales was a death sentence!

Ownership of ones words - however originally meant lies with the author in ALL cases. The damage from the BEXIT “ debate “ is only now begining to start to repair. Making or exagerating distorted claims may play well with the party faithful - to justify sudden personal U turns - but the effect on community cohesion and whipping up the populace helps no one. The 20 mph debate and personal responsibilty is an issue now for ARTD to think about and consider. How ever patrician and scoulding our First Minister is - in his academic led / top down approach …..he has been open, honest and clear in his direction on this issue - always doing the democratic thing via his Manifesto. We need to have a moment of reflection early in the new year with the three party leaders looking at REAL outcomes and implementation of this well meant but rushed one size fits all scheme. ARTD needs to calm his more zeleot minded new supporters and sign daubers….he does Wales and his party no favours by sloganising and mis representing the issues.

1) The article states the result of an almost identical policy in Spain where injury rates reduced. So what causes your doubt about saving lives? 2) Department for transport states that for every 1mph slower vehicles travel the accident rate drops 6%. 3) 30mph is still a nanny state rule. That was introduced in 1934 to slow traffic in built up areas. If you want to get rid of the nanny state you need to get rid of all speed limits.

They Tory party will never scrap the change here, there are far too many Tory controlled councils in England that have Introduced it and are about to introduce this law. Scotland has said it will do the same by 2025. There are 28 million people in the UK live in areas where a local authority has set the speed limit at 20 mph. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.20splenty.org/20mph_places&ved=2ahUKEwj74Zy-qMOBAxUNTEEAHYxpA0cQFnoECDAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0gbkyf5pc-rNdLI1D8C1u9

Forty years ago my son killed a child, who ran in front of him between parked cars. to buy from ice cream van. He was doing 25mph.he was found to be completely free of fault. He could not possibly have missed her or seen her until she was under his wheels. He has never got over this, At 20 mph she was likely to survive. Do you really want to go a bit faster and endanger a child's life? Would you REALLY vote for this shower who have done massive damage to UK so you can go a third faster?

You're hardly a 'left leaning socialist' if you'll vote for an increasingly far-right Tory party. As for discounting the lives lost, how would you feel if it were one of your children or someone close to you were killed by a speeding motorist travelling at 30mph where they would have lived had the vehicle been travelling at 20mph? This article in today's Guardian more or less sums things up and could be seen as neatly complimentary to Martin Shipton's article above: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/24/for-the-likes-of-jeremy-clarkson-this-lefty-penchent-for-safer-road-is-just-too-pedestrian

ARTD is a political buffoon, a man whose ego far exceeds his political intellect. Sadly, he and his chums will tap into the frustration folk feel at the bungled manner in which this change has been implemented. WG can't ignore the fact that 400k people have signed a petition against the change. Compromise is needed. Look at restoring arterial routes to 30mph. I don't think most have any real argument with residential areas being 20mph but folk are getting very frustrated simply trying to get to work. I note some commentators saying how little difference it's made crossing Wales - well it wouldn't would it? Try driving from Dafen to Cydweli. Most are ignoring the change whilst some observe it. They are then having folk tailgating and blowing the horn. Add the confusion over old and new signs into the mix - the council are spraying over old 30mph signs whilst folk are spraying over the new 20's. W.Gov need to admit it's a mess and step up to fix this.

So strong is the public feeling against this change, that a rally in Cardiff against it, drew a couple of hundred or so people, against a petition of over 400 thousand, and included protests against ULEZ and the cashless society. What a joke the claim that this petition is the view of the people of Cymru.

Sadly, the Tories are good at motivating the poorly educated with not much going on in their lives to hate others

The leader of the Conservatives & Unionists in Wales (I can't bring myself to call them Welsh) is an exceptionally empty vessel who makes an unholy amount of pointless noise. Out of ideas, policies and time...It's all he and nasty friends have left.

The Left frequently endures political opposition with ill grace: Scratch the surface of even a well-mannered Socialist and you'll often see a dogmatic and dictatorial communistic bigotry driving their ideals! For the governed it is like being back in school and suffering constant authoritarian intolerance of all dissent. Disagreement, to such people, is decried as the unacceptable misbehaviour and mischief of lesser minds, improperly catechized in the 'True Faith'. EU Membership was one such unquestionable assumption in the view of some. 'Twenty's Plenty' is another actually very questionable notion. That narrow and intolerant sense of absolute righteousness is priggishly offensive and only tends to emphasise political division and entrench extremist rhetoric on all sides. In this way, the Senedd's toxic ethos encourages rather than defuses social tensions in the country. The same, to be fair, is also true of that 'Dialogue of the Deaf' which is the UK Parliament of today. Meanwhile, ordinary people are under the cosh with burgeoning problems in every aspect of their daily lives and patience is in short supply. Tempers are frayed. Politicians who continually goad their already harried constituents, constantly hectoring them to mend their allegedly deplorable ways, only make us more bloody-minded. This is no way to govern. Authority must not be won just at election time, since people must be continually persuaded of good reasons to obey. Democratic Legislators do have the Power but wielding that Power in the form of unbending diktat - like FM Drakeford's imperious 'No!' when recently asked to think again on policy - is deeply unwise and counter-productive. Compromise is the supreme political art of the possible. Statecraft is taking people with you, not forcing them in directions they are naturally unwilling to travel. Leadership is listening to people's real issues at least as much as it is envisioning their future for them. In any case, will the shibboleth of 'Twenty's Plenty' be worth fighting and maybe politically dying for, when there are so many much more pressing matters crying out for remedy in Wales? And, for sure, constantly harping on Andrew R.T. Davies's perceived faults is becoming a monotonous distraction from Drakeford's shambolic running of Wales.

I don't use social media and I hear about these types of things second hand, so it's difficult for me to imagine the severity of instances like this. I miss out on being wound up by what sounds like truly vile online behaviour, but, I believe it's bad because it's very clear that something is driving everyone crazy. It's a mild 10mph change in speed limit in locations that already had slow speed limits. I'm starting to think politicians and media are deliberately causing this stir just as an elaborate joke at the public's expense to prove that they can cause a frenzied outrage about ANYTHING and picked the most humdrum policy to test their theory. That's my impression from online activity. However, out in the real world it seems to be a different story. People don't seem to care and I do genuinely wonder what other people's afk experiences are like these days. Is the mass hysteria real? Is society really losing the plot or does social media only represent a small sample of society that would be hyper-opinionated and socially antagonistic anyway? Social media is not a platform that allows for constructive, in-depth discussion. It's design really only fits spontaneous, demonstrative jabs to assert ones stance on a given situation that will soon be buried and replaced by other people's jabs. Yet social media is the obvious forum to go to if one is searching for an idea of what the rest of society is thinking or feeling. I'm just not sure it's providing an accurate representation.

I'd never heard of Nation Cymru until a few minutes ago when I clicked a Facebook link. Tell me, are you affiliated with the Labour party? Certainly seems that way reading the 20mph article.

I posted a response, which did not praise Welsh labour, removed within minutes, says it all.