YesCymru or Not Yet Cymru?

Cinzia don't give up, the majority of us still hold the values you wrote about and still want Yes Cymru to change for the better, to find it's mojo again. If you/we give up we would be resigning our children to a poverty filled future, that isn't right no matter how bad Yes Cymru have become. It's time the Welsh independence movement got it's act together and I'm sure you'll be a major part of it - persevere!

And yet the latest, the 7th I think, in the past two months of “opinion pieces – or revelations” published in  Nation Cymru emanating from a small but destructive element who wish to see YesCymru and the campaign for Welsh independence collapse ... you have to ask why.  I’m not Welsh, I don’t speak Welsh but have been an active member for a number of years and the picture Dr Cinzia Yates tries to paint of YesCymru is far from my experience of the organisation What is now become very clear through all of this is that a   small group within YesCymru disagreed with a majority decision and  because they didn’t get their own way  chose to do as much damage as they possibly could. Behaviour more at home in a junior school playground than as a key member of any organisation.  Much to their disappointment though YesCymru is  still very much here and members, especially those active members in groups, have seen through the misinformation that they circulated and “leaked” and are questioning Dr Yates and the others involved   motives. A meeting called by the group with invitations to all YesCymru members saw around 10 people attend. Which was a shame really because the so called evidence they produced was farcical. I don’t for one minute believe Cinzia Yates and the others are unionist infiltrators but their egos and hubris know no bounds and to borrow Welsh fraise "To Be Honest" I am now getting rather tired of them.    Well done  Dr. Yates and the  small number of  destructionists and it is a very, very  small number for doing Westminster’s work for them.

On our way Cymru 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 This is a journey with a clear destination

I am one of the members of Yes Cymru that Cinzia mentions, who should have reacted angrily to events but remained silent. This was not due to apathy, but to incredulity.   It seems to me that Yes Cymru has one straightforward objective: to persuade a substantial majority of the people of Wales that independence would be better than the current unfair system of rule from Westminster. Given this objective, there are obvious ways to move forward. Organising rallies such as those in Caernarfon and Merthyr can provide excellent publicity, and gives encouragement to those present. Arranging discussions and producing publications on topics such as economic and political models for an independent Wales can help to convince people that the plans will work.  If leaders of Yes Cymru are not committed to working towards these kinds of objective, they should stand aside and let others take over. 

I was with the author up to the point where she turned on the membership & the people of Cymru in general. I don't agree with the "shrug of the shoulders" or " apathy" part but what I think you'll find is exasperation & confusion at what's been going on & with various statements being spread about & coming from all quarters. It's turned into a they said you said scenario where large numbers of the membership (myself included) are keeping our powder dry for the time being. The previous CEO was accused of not increasing membership numbers during his tenure, what on earth will they do if membership numbers decline due to these latest shenanigans. For the sake of a progressive future Cymru just sort it out.

Some lazy un-evidenced assertions in the article about differences in social attitudes between Wales and England. The actual evidence suggests the differences are not large and don’t all go in the same direction. And that it is wrong to regard England as homogeneous. https://tfl.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/media/documents/Trust_for_London_Final_Report_to_TL_FINAL_FORMATTED_.pdf

Rank and file membership need to identify and toss out the bad apples. Anyone trying to suppress debate or communication should be seen as contrary to the interest of the movement. The only dictatorship should be that of the rank and file. People appointed/elected into senior leadership roles should accept the caveat - behave or you are out !

What we have here is an individual who hasn't had her own way and so reverts to having a tantrum via the media. Although Nation Cymru is entirely neutral in its reporting and publishing of opinions, this not the first time a nudge -nudge article by someone with an axe to grind, attacking Yes Cymru has been published. Why hasn't Dr Yates taken up this matter with the chair? Or if she feels so strongly, written to the governors individual;y, or chairs of the groups? No, easier to play the hurt card and in so doing is damaging the cause. For shame!

If we do nothing, nothing will be done. It's quite a simple premise. The Scots did something and nearly grasped freedom with both hands until they were lied to by the Westminster establishment with promises of DevoMax which never happened. We now see the consequences of their failure. Labour & Tories waiting in the wing to ensure they (Scotland) never have the opportunity to become independent by slowly putting barriers in the way and defaming those leaders with mudslinging and character assassination. A classic technic used. And where we (Wales) comes into the equation. Why is it that Wales out of all the home nations constantly vote Labour when all they do is manage poverty rather than eradicate it. And less we forget. English Labour use the Welsh idea of a National Health Care system as their own but regard Wales and Welsh with utter contempt. You've got to look at our 1997 devolution settlement insult as a fine example of the contempt Labour holds for Wales. I find the only ones who have benefitted since Labour was established as a party in 1900 is not Wales or the Welsh people but those Wales Labour MPs London who say one thing but do another. Their Wales manifesto is an A4 waste of space. All they care about is Westminster power and stuffing an already fiscally obese England with infrastructure upon infrastructure as Wales remains a waste ground. We need a strong Plaid Cymru at Westminster to fight for Wales interests as Labour, Liberals and Tories will never put Wales above their own self-interests. Why can't we see this. Wake up Wales! And supporting YesCymru is a vital megaphone to champion all things Wales and Welsh, because only we can change Wales fortunes for the better, because if left to others will mean the perpetuation of poverty, isolation on the fringe of Britain, not lead to the political & economic transformation we desperately need and deserve, as we've given so much but received so little in return.

I try very hard not to attack or denigrate others, I've always believed that once personal attacks are made, the argument falls. I am making an exception here. Apparently, Dr Yates can "organise a conference standing on my head." The Yes Cymru Summer conference was announced the previous in December, thus allowing six months to organise. Whilst it was not quite a shambles, I have certainly been to better organised events. Badly marketed. order of speakers re- arranged without notice, discussion groups not organised and panels re-arranged. Bluntly, attendance was poor and that more than anything reflected on how badly organised the conference was - it Dr Yates six months to badly organise a poorly attended event; Undod took just a few weeks to organise a very well attended conference in Swansea a few weeks before. Dr Yates, please take your bile and "organising" skills elsewhere and let those of us who believe in the new Wales get on with the job without you sniping at us.

Shut. Yes. Cymru. Down. It has not moved us forwards it is pulling us down. Join Plaid/Greens/Gwlad and win the mandate at the ballot box. YesCymru was ruined first by ideological purists and then by a bunch of ego's in excess of their capabilities. All we hear is of the toxicity and incompetence at the heart of this bloviated organisation. Enough!

Wales hasn't 'always been left wing'. Many Welsh people despise these collectivist ideologies and the nanny state. Opposing socialism doesn't mean you oppose Wales. The far left are unelectable... most people in Wales want freedom, opportunity and MONEY.

Too many articles about this now. I am not sure who is at fault, however the more I see of these articles, the more I wonder if there is an intent to undermine the organisation. If that is the case, be in no doubt that you are not just harming the organisation, but the entire independence movement as a whole. I that what you want? I was very concerned about initial reports of the CEO having been dismissed and I was initially very sympathetic, however having read official correspondence from the organisation which stated that he was dismissed to secure the financial viability of the organisation and that he had not succeeded in increasing membership numbers (which let's face it, is crucial to the running of any successful membership-based organisation), then I can understand why that decision was taken, even though it was deeply regrettable. However, the constant stream of articles has now left a sour taste and has left me with the opinion that there is a determination to destroy the movement. If you are unhappy with the direction of the organisation, then leave and establish your own where you can shape and influence its policies as you see fit.

All about me, me, me!

I have had grave misgivings about the way YesCymru is structured right from the first crisis some years ago. I was utterly gobsmacked to discover that the movement didn't adopt a constitution as soon as it could, and that bad practices had established before the movement had even really got off the ground. I am a paying member, but on several occasions I have had to consider whether I want my money going to an organisation that seems to chaotic and unable to function in any recognisable manner. I've said this before, I think that much of the trouble is the top down hierarchical structure that was adopted, and then made even worse by becoming a limited company a la Reform UK - which is deliberately a limited company so that the membership has no effective control. I doubt that the decision was made with that in mind in the case of YesCymru, but it appears to me naïve in the extreme to not realise that this structure gives directors immense amounts of power. Really, the movement should be under the direct democratic control of all 6500 members, who should be voting on every single move, rule change, change of policy etc. The Industrial Workers of the World works in this way, and though there are central committees, they are made up of delegates subject to immediate recall - no-one has any power, apart from the individuals in the branches. In this way, control remains with the grass roots and there is no way of undermining that. It may appear to be a rather 'clunky' way to run a large organisation,the IWW is based in Chicago, USA, but has members and branches in many countries,and yet still manages to remain both democratic and controlled by the grass roots membership. Personally, I would have preferred to have seen YesCymru adopt a similar structure and constitution. Had this been done early on in the movement's history I think it unlikely we would have seen the shenanigans that have affected and threatened to destroy the movement three times now. Futhermore, the IWW is a politically and religiously non-aligned organisation. Religion and party politics are to be left at the door, because of their potential to cause division. It's a rule that is strictly enforced, even though many, if not most of the membership are very politically active people outside of the union. The movement works largely because there aren't really any leaders! (Apart from the thousands of ordinary members.)