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Opinion

YesCymru going from strength to strength as support for independence grows

By Mark Mansfield
Siôn Jobbins addresses the marchers in Caernarfon. Photo Nation.Cymru

Mark Mansfield

It’s been an extraordinary year so far for campaigners for Welsh independence. The first march for independence took place in Cardiff in May and attracted over 3,000 participants, drawing media attention far beyond Wales. Eleven town and community councils have voted to back independence and in July, Gwynedd County Council became the first local authority in Wales to vote in favour of an independent Wales with 42 councillors in favour, four against, and five abstaining.

The YesCymru flag briefly flew from the council building in Caernarfon following the vote and several thousand more were on display in the town a week later as the second independence march, again organised by YesCymru and AUOB Cymru, attracted an eye-popping estimated crowd of 10,000.

The third march takes place in Merthyr Tydfil on September 7th and should keep the campaign firmly in the spotlight with Welsh football legend and activist Neville Southall one of the main speakers.

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Siôn Jobbins has been Chair of YesCymru since the organisation went though a major shake-up at the end of last year and he believes there has been a significant momentum shift in support of independence in the last two years, sparked in no small part by the political chaos currently engulfing the UK: “The last year or so something has clicked. I think the mess with Brexit, the shenanigans, the lies going on at Westminster. We used to think - I used to think - to some extent Westminster was the proper parliament. The Assembly was a bit small and stuff. But they are no better than us.

This has been quite an eye opener, even for people like me who have always been nationalists.

I think that has happened and people are starting to wake up.”

“We could be in the situation quite soon where Scotland is independent, Ireland then reunites and we are left with a United Kingdom of Wales and England.

If we are not ready for that then we are going to be caught with our trousers around our ankles, in a very embarrassing situation and it is going to be too late the day after to think “Oh let’s have independence”.

“We need to discuss this now because it takes time to develop the arguments, to improve the arguments, because we don’t have a monopoly on the answers either – and to get people together, to get ready for that.”

Focal Point

With a fully paid up membership of over 1000, branches all across Wales and further afield and a team of volunteers that recently delivered over 60,000 leaflets, YesCymru is becoming a formidable campaigning force and focal point for the independence movement. Jobbins admits: “It makes me very proud and quite emotional to see that people feel so strongly about their country and that things can be better and will be better with independence that they are doing this. YesCymru is part of this, giving them the strength to feel and act like this.”

“The exciting thing is we are creating a mass movement of people for independence. All kinds of people, different ages, different backgrounds and we want to bring them together.”

“Independence is a vehicle for change. I don’t think the British state can change, so independence is the way to make the change that people want.

We are creating a nationalist movement because that is the most effective way of creating the change Wales needs because the system under Westminster doesn’t work.”

Facebook

“There is not even a Facebook campaign in the Republic of Ireland to reunite with Westminster. Not even a Facebook campaign!

Independence works. In the 1960’s the Welsh economy was twice the size of the Republic’s. Today the Irish economy is five time the size of Wales’.”

“The only way to fight British nationalism is with Welsh nationalism, because you change the agenda. You change the game. And that is what you have with independence.

If you give in to the British nationalist agenda, that is believing in a unified British state, you can never beat them, this is why Labour are having problems. You cannot beat the right-wing British nationalists at the game of British nationalism. The only way to beat them in our situation in Wales is with Welsh nationalism. Even if people aren’t particularly Welsh nationalist or even Welsh, to use that vehicle for change and to create a counterweight and a counterargument and a mass movement which is against the right-wing monetarist coup which is going on with Brexit.”

YesCymru carefully positions itself as non-party political but some critics have complained the organisation is too close to Plaid Cymru.  Jobbins rejects those accusations: “The great thing with YesCymru is it plays a straight bat. We want independence. We don’t go into detail on whether to have nuclear power or not, or will it be Brexit or will we be in NATO? That’s another argument.”

Independence

“We are a broad church, just for independence. But there are other groups too which is great to see. There is Undod, which is a more left-wing Radical Scotland type group, there is Labour for an Independent Wales, of course there is Plaid Cymru and we have other groups. The great thing is there are people from those groups in Yes Cymru and just getting stuff done.”

“In Machynlleth Rhydian Mason, who is not a Plaid Cymru member and voted for Brexit, tabled a motion for Machynlleth to support independence and that’s happened because of what is happening around YesCymru. The family gives people the confidence, the strength, to do this kind of thing. YesCymru isn’t directing this. This is happening because people want it to happen.”

“There is obviously one party that wants independence but YesCymru is not part of Plaid Cymru.  I think Plaid Cymru are very glad of that. It gives them the space to give their own different arguments. And we have Labour members who are also supportive of YesCymru and we want to keep that as it is. If people want to follow a more policy line there are parties for that and we support that. We are just for independence and I think that is the way it has to be at the moment.”

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25 comments

Robert Hogg

As a Scottish nationalist I wish YES Cymru all the best in their endeavours to run their own country's affairs and reach the point of nationhood . I fear your struggle is more difficult due to the many many non Welsh inhabitants , a fear of my own now that Scotland seems to be becoming something of a retirement home for the non friendly to independence . We do have a contingent of English for YES and they are very welcome , but I would be lying if I was to say the others are as welcome . It's becoming clear to many in England that they can sell up their expensive to buy homes and move to Scotland and buy a similar home and then have a sizeable chunk of money left in the bank . Some can even buy a small estate of house and land . My fear for Wales is this has been common for longer down there . I recall from my childhood how the welsh didn't take kindly to village and small town homes being bought up as holiday homes used a few times a year leaving locals and their children and family's with no local housing options . I also recall how some such holiday homes were being burned down in protest . Some forty plus years ago now . I always wonder if the incomer numbers was why Wales saw the Plaid party go backwards in popularity since then ? . I don't see it as malicious intent via English folks in our country's but merely they continue to vote as they would where they came from . I fear it would most likely never be as a nationalist of that country . In these days of longer life for some we all face a serious problem of those numbers being larger than those of working age , we see the Tory answer on our posts with ideas of pensions at seventy five . Scotland will not be served by having our number of retired elderly moving here , we need young and able bodied workers yet we are to be denied the power to achieve this thanks to the Leave vote that we did not support . We now face our devolved powers being dismantled to accommodate that outcome . You may all be well aware but I cannot be sure as you may or may not know we don't have any media on our side , unless you count one newspaper The National .. only existed since 2015 . A sorry circumstance where over 50% of our population has no voice Scotland wide far less UK wide . So much for " Better Together " claims of " don't leave Scotland us Scotland , stay and lead ! , your voice is important to us " , mealy mouthed politicians and a London centric propaganda machine . I,m sure Wales will face this soon if not already , I can only promise more of the same on steroids . Again my thoughts are with your movement , stay true to your goal and do so peacefully for as long as that is prudent and let's hope over fear we both see the dream realised .

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Rhosddu

The number of likes shows that your words of encouragement have been very welcome, Robert. As for Scotland, I'm saddened to hear that settlers in that country bring their BritNat mindset with them, although the numbers are, indeed smaller than in Wales, and are probably not enough to swing any future Scottish indyref in favour of remaining tied to Westminster. Not so in Wales. My only consolation is that settler children will be brought up, to a certain degree, learning Welsh ways and will be taught the language in school, and may be more well-disposed towards independence when they are adults. Welsh independence may therefore have to wait a generation. I hope I'm wrong; and if I am, I hope it's not too late by then. The answer lies not in converting settlers but in removing the blinkers from the eyes of the majority in the anglophone post-industrial areas. Plaid Cymru haven't declined in influence because of demographic change but because their luke-warm approach to Wales's real problems, and to independence as the solution. and their promoting of irrelevant issues, have alienated many working people. Hopefully the work of YesCymru, and the contribution of organisations such as Cymru Sovereign and Ein Gwlad, will encourage a more adult approach to the pressing need for Welsh independence. Fortunately, we are seeing signs of this among ordinary party members and among Plaid voters who are not members.

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Norm

So we know where you stand on ethnic cleansing how about some answers on economics....where's the money coming from?

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In reply to Norm

Rhosddu

You know perfectly well that there is nothing promoting ethnic cleansing here. Don't try to skirt around the issues of colonialism and colonisation by suggesting a spurious idea of colonisers being victims of the colonised. If you use that tactic again, you'll be called out for it. Various people on this and other sites have given an explanation of how the problem of 'the money' lies not with Wales's inability to earn its own keep, but with the diversion of that country's wealth into projects that are of no benefit to it.

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In reply to Rhosddu

Norm

I'm calling you out mush, don't come the victim because its only you and the others on this echo chamber who refer to other citizens of this country as ''settlers''

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In reply to Norm

Rhosddu

Not so. And this isn't an echo chamber. Nor does it have an anti-settler agenda, but has a positive attitude to any settler who acknowledges that he or she has come to live in another country (albeit a colony) and willingly embraces the culture, values, and (in an increasing number of instances) the language of this country. The enmity of contributors and subscribers on this and other media sites, as regards this matter, is towards those who, having settled here, see Welsh people and Welshness as irritants to be ridiculed or ignored.

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In reply to Rhosddu

Norm

You used the word ''settler'' first not I, people moving within there own nation state cannot be ''settlers'' Wales has had 100 years to make Plaid the seperatist party the biggest party but its still smaller than the welsh Tories which explains why only the same few obsessives post on this echo chamber.

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In reply to Norm

Rhosddu

Let me explain for what I hope will be the final tme. The UK is, as you say, a state. It comprises several nations, one of which (England), is the de facto state. Another (Scotland) is an ostensibly equal partner with the former but in practice is subject to its decisions in most matters. A third (N. Ireland) is a semi-autonomous province in accordance with the wishes, for the time being, of the majority of its people. A fourth (Cymru, a.k.a. Wales), has nominal home rule of a very limited kind but is in effect a colony whose economy and resources are geared to the benefit of the South East of England and is also a settler plantation to provide what might unkindly be called lebensraum for those wishing to escape from overcrowded and multicultural urban life in England. While Wales remains in this colonial relationship it can do nothing to countermand this demographic change, so the question becomes "How will those who settle in this colony from elsewhere conduct themselves in relation to the indigenous population?" We have seen how this change has impacted negatively on the language of Wales over the last one hundred years or so. There are signs, however, that the recent positive change in status of the Welsh language has encouraged some settlers to adopt a more mature attitude towards that language, but much work still needs to be done before eventual independence. A good start has been made through the growth of Welsh-nedium education in schools, and one of the most welcome effects of this is that the children of settlers can now potentially become fluent in Welsh; in fact, I consider the turnaround in the fortunes of Cymraeg to be the Welsh Labour Government's single real achievement in twenty years of devolution. On a different but clearly related matter, it will be interesting to see what the effects on unwanted housebuilding will be of the proposed transfer of planning legislation from Westminster to Cardiff Bay.

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In reply to Rhosddu

Norm

'indigenous population' You're an ethnic nationalist mush as I said in the first comment, people like you live on victimhood and blame, now i've nothing else to say to a racist like you.

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In reply to Norm

Rhosddu

The racist card won't work here. My comments on this particular post -- and indeed most people's comments on most of the posts on this site -- fall under the aegis of civic nationalism. English settlers are welcome in the nationalist fold; it might only apply to a small minority as yet, but I would be surprised if the recent independence marches didn't include one person born across the border, and you'd be surprised at how many settlers have learnt, or are learning, to speak Welsh. We should at least give these people a chance to assimilate -- if they're willing to.

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In reply to Rhosddu

Norm

I have no intention of learning welsh or any need to. English ''settlers'' are citizens of the same nation state there is no difference whether you are English or welsh so dehumanising them or taking away their full citizenship and rights would be exactly the same as 1930's Germany revoking the citizenship of Jews.....so you ARE a racist and I AM playing that card. Do you think Jews joined the National socialist party of Germany? there aren't many ethnic minority faces on view in these marches? To be fair to Plaid they don't publicly advocate such things but there's a new party called Ein Gwlad in which Ein Kampf would be more apt.

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In reply to Norm

Rhosddu

No, as I said, Welsh nationalism is civic nationalism. Read the other responses on this posting and you'll get the drift. We in Wales must be very wary when BritNat supremacists try to attack the independence movement by inappropriately playing the race card, so don't be fooled. As for Ein Gwlad, again no, they're obviously not Nazi sympathisers, although ironically a small minority in the independence movement have bandied the word about (as well as the obligatory "fascist") because, as far as I can tell, Ein Gwlad (and other groups or individuals) prioritise independence as a precursor to tackling less pressing problems in Cymru, but the name-callers are mainly people whose power-base, or even livelihood, depends on pushing these lesser issues to the fore. It's suspected they've even infiltrated Plaid Cymru.

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In reply to Norm

Bob Flowers

Exactly. Welsh racism is disguised as nationalism to hide the fact that given the chance the English would be lynched. Look at Gwynedd with the racist Llais councillors, look at the way British children from further east are punished in schools for sealing their own (and the rest of the country's) language, look at the stupid renaming of towns in Welsh forms they never had - heaven's sake, go to the supermarket and you'll find Yorkshire Puddings labelled as puddings from Sir Y Ffrog! (Even trying to erase English names in England!) The pro-EU, pro-European with the exception of the English says it all. Vile racist 'sgwm'.

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Aled Gwyn J

It's really good to see the strides that YES Cymru have made of late. Sion Jobbins is right on the money to say that traditional Welsh nationalism is the only way to counter British nationalism, and I really hope he sticks to his guns on this one. The recent obsession with being 'progressive' and seeking to please a kind of Guardian-reading, metropolitan and cosmopolitan audience has been the bane of the national movement over the past twenty years or so. It just goes to show how modern left modernism pushed by those three dominating cultural agents of our age(media, academia and the entertainment industry) has managed to colonize people's minds here in Wales over this last period. YES Cymru has to push back against all this nonsense and as Sion Jobbins says, it's got to be a broad church predicated on the known and trusted tenets of Welsh nationalism to keep everybody on board. Let's hope and pray this essential unity of purpose can be maintained.Please don't allow fringe elements such as plaid ifanc or undod to jeopardize that with their ideological fixations. That unity of purpose for Welsh Independence is even more important now as we face the prospect of a Boris Johnson post-brexit premiership. Yes of course, Johnson's Etonian mindset will be further grist to the independence mill in one respect. But, there's also a very real danger that Johnson could prove to be the most driven and purposeful prime ministers for a generation-and could conceivably reimagine a revived 'British' identity. Which as we know, could appeal to many in Wales, especially in view of the insipid and vision-free leadership provided down in Cardiff Bay since 1999. YES Cymru need to step up to the plate to prepare for this possibility and think of new ways to counter the Johnson threat. Pursuing some form of deological purity to counterpose Johnson's reforming agenda won't cut it. Traditional Welsh nationalism is the only real defence. .

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Siôn

My rights as a gay person are not 'nonsense'. I hope your marginal views stay out of the independence movement or it'll never appeal to the young generation. You're a dying breed Aled - a melys moes mwy.

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Steve Duggan

Many people say to me - you hate Brexit but support Welsh independence, double standards. However, I believe Wales can be a very successful country within the EU, other small populated countries such as Ireland have shown us that. Besides, unlike the ultra brexiteers who want to cut all ties with the EU I realise that to do that with the rest of the UK would not benefit Wales, close ties would have to be maintained but which close ties would be our decision not London's. Wales will never prosper under Westminster's rule and will continue to decline, the only way to true prosperity is through independence. YesCymru have set the tone right by foregoing any political orientation and just sticking to one goal - Independence.

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Norm

Its alright waving flags and blaming the English but how about hard economic answers to questions ?

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vicky moller

Wales has all the resources for wealth, they are just not used to create wealth for Wales. Plus huge changes ahead mean these resources are more valuable than ever and we need to ensure they are well used not squandered. Wealth and a successful economy are not the barrier, its government and economic power that is in the wrong hands.

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John Young

I've explained some of the answers a number of times Norm but one thing I never did was blame the English. It's not the English people who have created the financial situation Wales is in at the moment but successive Labour and Conservative UK Parliaments. The UK media continually talks about the Welsh Fiscal deficit and claimed that that deficit was £13 billion as of the last figures I saw. They said Welsh expenditure was £38 billion while Welsh revenue was £25 billion. What those figures DON'T tell you is that £billions of the £38 billion is money allocated as Welsh Expenditure on what the government describe as projects which benefit the whole of the UK, hence Wales being allocated 5% of the cost down to population. So, £1 billion of Welsh expenditure went on Crossrail for London. If HS2 goes ahead it will cost Wales £5 billion, Crossrail 2 will cost us £1.5 billion as will the third runway at Heathrow. The clue is in the fact that none of them are in Wales and are all of virtually ZERO benefit to Wales even though the cost to Wales of just those few projects will be £9 billion. Then there's tax. £ billions of Welsh tax is not registered as Welsh tax because a huge number of large companies register their VAT and Corp tax at their HQ's. So that money is registered as English tax because almost all of those HQ's are in South East England. Even Welsh road tax is registered at the DOT in London. And Wales is also lumbered with 5% of the cost of the armed forces which means about £2 billion a year. If as an Independent country Wales was to spend an amount on a Welsh army proportionate to the amount Ireland spends that figure would be roughly £300 million, a 'saving' of about £1.7 billion.

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Norm

If what you say is true why isn't Plaid Cymru shouting it from the rooftops?

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In reply to Norm

Rhosddu

It has (e.g. on HS2 in April 2019), but perhaps not loudly enough.

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Joanne Davies

As much I'd like to see it happen, it never will. Not even Scotland will vote for independence. People think in terms of their mortgages and pensions and how to put food on the table. They won't vote to change currency and risk economic upheaval. Sadly, the UK is here to stay and will outlive all of us.

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Ifor Jones

Im always disappointed to hear of any individual from any country who hasnt enough pride and confidence in their own nation`s ability to be able to govern themselves.

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Nic Ros

Maybe. But will the UK outlive my children?

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jr humphrys

Look to Europe, Cymru. Too much insular thinking. You would need a Europa correspondent/s, and links.

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Many people say to me - you hate Brexit but support Welsh independence, double standards. However, I believe Wales can be a very successful country within the EU, other small populated countries such as Ireland have shown us that. Besides,...

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