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Nation•Cymru A news service by the people of Wales, for the people of Wales.

Opinion

'Welsh only' social homes: Won't you think of the monoglots!

By Stephen Price
Trefor and Llanaelhaearn Community Council wants a language condition included before it gives its full approval to a bid to build 15 affordable homes. Photo via Google

Stephen Price

One of our most 'incendiary' news items this week concerns a north Wales council's backing of plans for a “fully affordable” housing estate in a coastal village only if it’s reserved for people who are “able to speak Welsh”.

Trefor and Llanaelhaearn Community Council wants a language condition included before it gives its full approval to a bid by Grŵp Cynefin to build 15 affordable homes on land adjacent to Llys yr Eifl, in the majority Welsh-speaking Gwynedd coastal village of Trefor.

Cyngor Gwynedd is recommending that the development be approved, subject to the completion of a Section 106 agreement, or a unilateral agreement for an open spaces contribution, during its planning meeting on Monday, 2 March.

During consultation, the community council stated it had “no objection to the application per se” with two conditions. They were a Welsh language condition for any residents and it being dealt with under a Local Lettings Policy, with specific letting requirements, rather than the Common Housing Allocation Policy.

The community council, in its formal response, said: “This is a golden opportunity to be truly progressive and innovative by being the first planning authority in Wales to venture to impose a language condition on a new social housing estate, in the heartland of the Welsh language.

“We understand that the Welsh Language Commissioner has received a legal opinion, which states unequivocally that it would not be illegal to make ‘able to speak Welsh’ a condition for the letting of
social housing.

“We also understand that the Commissioner has asked Cyngor Gwynedd, along with Housing Associations operating within the county, to consider this vital issue seriously.”

The community council said it had written to Cyngor Gwynedd’s chief executive Dafydd Gibbard and council leader Cllr Nia Jeffreys, to ask if that opinion had been discussed.

Local Letting Policies , the community council said, were “usually developed where there is a desire to change the balance of a community or to achieve a balanced community at the time when new development is being let.

“Cyngor Gwynedd is often proud to announce, if not to boast at times, that it is a progressive council that leads the rest of Wales on the issue of the Welsh language.

“It is our duty to recognise that there is a great deal of truth in that and thank you for your efforts.

“It would be a credit and a precedent for the council itself and an enlightened and long-awaited lead for the rest of Wales.

“By now colleagues, you have the legitimate right, and this has been confirmed by an expert. This can give a decisive and solid start to the preservation of the soul of our nation and the few remaining fragile areas.

“We beg for your willingness to do so and to show our people that Cyngor Gwynedd’s mission for our language is genuine, sincere and uncompromising”.

It added that it was “unanimous in the view that it will have no objection to the application if the conditions set out are given due regard and support”.

It also requested deferring the application decision until there was “a definite outcome” to the discussion over what had been submitted by the Language Commissioner to Cyngor Gwynedd and housing associations.

Send in the clowns

And that is all. Fifteen small houses in a very small majority Welsh-speaking area.

Not thousands of new dwellings for anyone but those in communities who consistently protest against them as we're seeing in Cardiff, Newport, Monmouthshire and elsewhere.

Fifteen houses to balance the obscene house prices that no local could ever afford. Just those fifteen which, mercifully, might end up allowing local people to live in their own square miles.

And yet, it's not only national (i.e. Wales-wide) news, it's also of interest to those outside of Wales judging by other outlets picking up the story, or those not in Wales commenting on social media.

And who are the victims in this? Of course, it's monoglot English speakers who hadn't even heard of the location until reading the article, and probably couldn't pronounce Llys yr Eifl, but that's besides the point.

Wystopia

Picture the scene. You speak the world's number one global language. You can get by in pretty much all of the world as people bend to your 'superior' mother tongue.

You navigate every single detail of your life in your one and only language. Watch countless TV shows and movies, on countless television channels.

Even where your only language isn't the native one in, say, Wales, for example, the products on supermarket shelves, the books dominating libraries and most schools still reflect your sole language.

Life is easy, you don't even need to 'think' about language.

And then, all of a sudden, a community you're not even a part of, in an area of Wales you've probably not even visited, has the audacity to favour indigenous (and minority) language speakers.

Maths isn't my strongpoint, but let's just assume the community in question doesn't even cover the size of a pin-head on the entirety of a nicely sized UK map.

But think of the poor monoglot English speakers who are more than free to buy overpriced homes nearby that locals can't afford should they actually wish to live there. Again, the audacity!

I won't pick any comments that may have survived the down vote from Nation Cymru's article lest I bite the hand that clicks us (we all love a chart-topping news item!), so cue some of my 'favourite' Facebook comments from posts by the BBC, Wales Online, Nation Cymru, North Wales Live etc:

"Stopping someone from having a home because of the language they speak. Absolutely appalling.
I can imagine the uproar if a housing estate was built for English speakers only, or no overseas foreign languages."

"Discrimination at it's [sic] best. Bet good old Plaid are behind it. I'm Welsh born but not Welsh speaking. Discriminated against in my own nation."

"A nation of sanctuary everyone welcome apart from English speaking people."

"Discrimination, pure and simple."

And one suggesting that, perhaps, it's not the Welsh speaking council that's quite the discriminatory ones here after all: "Does that mean welsh language education for boat people will be mandatory?"

Meanwhile, another looked for a loophole, anything, anything, for a loophole: "What if they have a disability, that makes them unable to speak? Deaf, Autistic, mutism?"

If you can't think of the English speakers, then think of the deaf, autistic mutes, please!

How very dare they!

Thankfully, much of the commentary from within and outside of Wales has also been positive, with a fair number of Welsh speakers and English speakers, Welsh people and English people alike getting the point.

Your take on whether saving Cymraeg as a living community language in its heartlands through any means necessary is telling.

A compassionate speaker of only English should actively wish to see Welsh thrive, to be happy to sit this one out, to be thankful for their lot.

Too many monoglot English speakers, and indeed majority peoples in general, cannot fathom the idea of not being centred in a world that revolves around them by default at every turn.

This is an affront. It's to be attacked. How dare a community not bend to them, when the idea of bending the other way is unthinkable.

Atonement

While not to the liking of the geniuses of the Facebook comments section, Gwynedd's uncompromising stance is one that the United Nations are in full agreement with, with one expert stating that the protection of minority languages is a human rights obligation.

As she presented her latest report to the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva, the UN Independent Expert on minority issues, Rita Izsák, said: "Language is a central element and expression of identity and of key importance in the preservation of group identity.

“Language is particularly important to linguistic minority communities seeking to maintain their distinct group and cultural identity, sometimes under conditions of marginalisation, exclusion and discrimination.”

According to Izsák, historical factors such as colonialism have had a huge global impact on languages, resulting in the marginalisation of and decline in the use of indigenous and minority languages, "which were often seen as backwards, a barrier to colonial hegemony, or as slowing national development".

Ms. Izsák shared: “It can also be argued that today globalisation, the growth of the internet and web-based information is having a direct and detrimental impact on minority languages and linguistic diversity, as global communications and marketplaces require global understanding.”

And yet somehow, a Welsh council, with a few tools in their power to build fifteen measly houses for locals, is 'racist', and we must think of the poor English-only speakers who can (and do) live pretty much anywhere else in the world with little issue. They can (and do) even live in this rapidly anglicised hotbed of second homes.

When Monmouthshire County Council shares its 2,000 plus housing plans which are ideally located for the Bristol commute, and priced just right for the London up-sizer, these commenters have nothing to say.

But to ringfence a handful of council houses that might just allow locals to send their children to Welsh speaking schools is "racist".

To ensure the vitality and heart of a tiny coastal community - its people and its language - thrives is "discrimination".

To fight the tide of the rural Welsh diaspora and to ensure just one small village can remain a viable option for speakers of one of Europe's oldest languages is "appalling".

The negative commentary, with bully playing victim, speaks volumes, and only confirms the absolute need for the council to press ahead with their "genuine, sincere and uncompromising" mission and, when the time comes, to roll it out further.

The ongoing and pervasive threats to the world's minority languages need addressing, and absolutely anything being done to preserve language and community is to be commended.

Let these communities speak for themselves, in their own language.

It's the least the English-speaking world owes Wales.

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64 comments

Adam

Whilst I enjoy other points of view, some of the commentary against this has been downright surreal. You would hope that news such as this would open a meaningful and intelligent debate, but the points raised just seem to be media propaganda regurgitated to suit the viewpoint of those who think that something sacred is under attack and that they're going to lose something.

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Alwyn

I really can't see how people can be against this, I remember reading negative comments here. Pen llyn is clearly a sensitive and unique part of Wales. Unless completely destitute and nothing available in say Bangor, I can't imagine many English speakers would want to live here.

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Andy w

I understand that when the Celtic Manor was built there was the ‘Green Pound’ slogan - every pound MUST be spend to create jobs with Welsh individuals. Celtic Manor has been a popular resort. Lots of French organisations work with French organisations and speak French. Do people expect French people to speak a different language? We need Welsh speakers in Wales to stop speaking English; boycott restaurants / supermarkets etc which have staff who do not speak Welsh and share on social media any public funded organisation which has staff who refuse to speak Welsh.

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hdavies15

Many monoglot English people are extremely quick to spot an opportunity to engage in some victim role play. Their inability to grasp the reality of a minority existence is built into their DNA.

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Alwyn

Not sure I agree with that fully. But certainly there are many, especially in political circles, who seem to completely ignore or understand the perspective of others

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In reply to Alwyn

FloatingVoter

There is alot of contradictory thinking on this. I'm all for protecting all British cultures and languages. The problem comes when political parties start picking and choosing which communities they want protected and those they want changed by incomers. It will be a fact that the majority of people who strongly support these protectionist policies in Welsh speaking areas also strongly support multi-culturism for other areas. This makes no logical sense.

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Steve

The response to this policy has been fascinating, there have been many claims of 'racism' and 'anti-English bigotry' from the usual suspects (Reform, English based media, disaffected Tories etc). However if Nigel Farage announced a policy tomorrow which placed an English language requirement for social housing allocation in England those same people would be wholly supportive. Several countries have local language criteria for housing including Denmark and France, Wales is simply following suit.

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FloatingVoter

You are absolutely right. And its equally correct that Plaid Cymru would vigorously oppose a policy which barred non-English / Welsh speaking immigrants from accessing social housing. Whilst we have this fundamental dishonesty at the heart of policymaking, no good outcomes can be enjoyed.

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Liza Hancock

Diolch yn fawr iawn from me, my mom and my grandparents who were beaten by English teachers for speaking Cymraeg and for making the links to English white anti Indigenous racism and cultural genocide around the world, it does not matter what they the English gaslighters say, this truth does

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Quinn

Are you saying you agree with Reform that the Greens shouldn't have produced a video in Urdu? Or are you saying it's fine to provide access to a service in Urdu but not in Welsh?

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Lyn E

It was obvious from my first sentence that I was defending the principle of equal treatment. Strange you couldn't see that. What makes you think I would not defend election material in Welsh? As an election agent several years back, I was proud to produce a multilingual leaflet in English, Welsh, Arabic and Somali, to meet the needs of my community (more languages would have better still). By all means communicate in Welsh. But people should not be discriminated against because of the language they speak, which is what Reform would like. People with dozens of different first languages are on my local authority housing list. Social housing is in short supply, and it would be abusive to allocate what is available not by need but by which language someone happens to speak.

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Quinn

Equality is a tool used by the majority to discriminate against a minority. It's equity that matters. Demanding that a majority language receives equal treatment in a minority language enclave is the way to end minority language enclaves, and by extension the way to eliminate the minority languages. Look at how first nations were treated in 1950s Canada in the name of equality. The tyranny of the majority is well documented throughout history and your arguing against 15 social housing properties reserved for minority language speakers out of 244,263 that aren't is what's abusive. Your views are only reasonable at a national level. No-one should be prioritising anyone by language at this level but local positive measures are absolutely appropriate and necessary. So don't be surprised to discover that Reform agree with you once campaigning starts.

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In reply to Quinn

Lyn E

The principle is what counts. Every time my council opens new social housing, the far right are all over it with snide insinuations over who will get the homes, despite clear Council policy that the only criteria are need and local connection. I do not want to leave any gap for language to become legitimised as acceptable for denying housing. Reform would love that. The idea that people in my community should be denied social housing despite pressing need just because their first language is Somali, Arabic or one of many others, is repugnant. As Plaid Cymru says, everyone has the right to a home.

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In reply to Lyn E

Quinn

They're not equivalent because one is a national "blanket" proposal and the other local and targeted where positive measures are needed and justified to support an at risk language. The answer isn't to prevent these 15 being built and restricted to homeless folks with the relevant skills, but to build more homes in all communities.

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In reply to Quinn

Lyn E

If there were enough social homes I'd be less concerned but there are not. Even where councils are now building homes, waiting lists are still growing. I'm yet to see anything that convinces me that will change after the Senedd election. I am not aware of any evidence that being able to speak Welsh reduces someone's chance to obtain a decent and affordable home. But there is clear evidence that those from black or other ethnic minority backgrounds have a higher risk of poor housing despite talk from Welsh Government for over 20 years of fixing that. I don't think you understand the threat legitimising discrimination by language skills for access to housing or other essential services poses to multicultural multilingual communities.

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In reply to Lyn E

Quinn

You seem to be implying these homes wouldn't be available to people from Black or other ethnic minority backgrounds but there are a small but significant and growing group who've come through the Welsh medium education system that would be perfectly eligible.

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In reply to Quinn

Lyn E

No, I'm not assuming that. But there is no evidence that the ability to speak Welsh disadvantages anyone in the housing market. Hence no reason to push others down the waiting list.

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In reply to Lyn E

Quinn

So you'd deny Welsh speakers from Black or other ethnic minority backgrounds the opportunity to be part of a Welsh speaking community? Because that's one consequence of your "equality".

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In reply to Quinn

Lyn E

I do not wish to deny anyone the possibility of being part of a Welsh-speaking community, nor do I want to stop such communities growing. I simply want to preserve the principle that housing lists should be managed by human need. It may be possible to reconcile those goals. For example, if there are local existing social housing tenants who would like the opportunity to live in a Welsh-speaking community they could be enabled to move into the new homes, so freeing their old property to be allocated in the usual way without discrimination. That way nobody would be denied a home because of the language they speak.

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In reply to Lyn E

Quinn

Pitting groups against each other in a battle of whose need is greater is straight from the Reform playbook. Suggesting that support for one comes at the expense of another in a state that can find £40bn to refurbish central government is straight from the Reform playbook. Conflating local targeted measures with national blanket policies straight from the Reform playbook. The "social" in social housing covers a wide spectrum of need. To link it narrowly to a warm safe space to live is essentially Thatcherite because it's saying there's no such thing as society. Ultimately it should be for local government to decide on their social needs. If, for example, another local authority wanted to build 15 social homes for young teachers to help a nearby school recruit and retain staff then they should be free to do that even if it "denies" others in need and "discriminates" against those without teaching qualifications. Governance is complicated and nuanced, and involves balancing a lot of different interests. Oversimplifying and polarising the debate, and layering it with emotive moral panic language, is straight out of the Reform playbook.

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In reply to Lyn E

Padi Phillips

Given that the majority of working class people in Gwynedd are Welsh speaking, i.e. people on low incomes there is a correlation between being Welsh speaking and not being able to afford to rent or buy a home in the area simply becuase your near minimum wage job doesn't provide enough income to even rent privately in the locality, especially when those same properties can be rented out as holiday lets for far more return. It's not just a case of simply building social housing in an area where many former communities are full of second homes and holiday lets that are largely responsible for the decline of those places as viable communities. There are already more than sufficient underutilised houses that, in my opinion, could (and should) be used to house locals, and much, much more should have been done a long time ago to establish a local market for housing where a local connection or residency qualification is required to even purchase a home in the locality. Simply building social housing would lead to massive, and unecessary overdevelopment. In the interim, I think local authorities need to fully utilise the powers they have to manage and control second homes and holiday lets through applying the rules to the maximum, and indeed, seeking further powers to make it increasingly difficultm and expensive, to have a second home, or run a holiday let business. Of course, hand in hand with this, the local economy needs to be boosted with government at local and national level investing in skills that divert away from the skivvy economy of tourism.

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In reply to Padi Phillips

Lyn E

I agree or am sympathetic to most of this. I have supported council tax premiums on empty or second homes since they were first proposed. Gwynedd has probably gone further with these than any other local authority in Wales, but as you say the problem remains, so I agree more action is needed. Local connection is a well-recognised basis for allocating social housing but should not be confused with a discriminatory language test, even if correlations are high in particular places. A local person who does not speak Welsh has as much right to social housing as one who does. I agree that just building more homes is not the answer. Councils should make more use of compulsory purchase powers, which are within their power, although the price that must be paid is set by Westminster rules (and is often excessive). I can see the attraction of a local connection rule for property purchase, although it would require a change to UK law to make that possible. Such a rule would be difficult to define and implement and would create its own imbalances over time, but it might be worth considering as an emergency measure where market prices are squeezing out local people.

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FrankC

You don't accept Welsh speaking communities deserve protection then?

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Lyn E

I support measures to promote the Welsh language. I do not support discriminatory exclusion. 'Protecting communities' is the language Reform uses to promote racism and bigotry.

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FrankC

That's a no then.

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Alwyn

Meh....you can't please everyone clearly

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Alwyn

I think you're getting carried away. As the previous article said no linguistic consideration can overrule the statutory requirements. If your homeless and destitute and there is nothing else and you don't speak english, then no one is stopping you entering these as yet unbuilt houses. It's unlikely this case will ever arise - do you know where trefor is? Someone homeless in Monmouthshire isn't going to move to pen llyn,don't worry, you're overthinking and over analysing this

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Quinn

Your "serious suggestion" was nothing of the sort. Existing housing association tenants can already move by tenancy transfer so unless your proposal includes a language restriction on the new properties they will be joining a long queue of folks simply wanting to move to a better property without any interest in joining a Welsh speaking community. Saying you support Welsh speaking communities then proposing solutions you know that will not help or offer nothing new is worse than Reform who at least hide their real intentions in plain sight.

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Lyn E

It was a serious suggestion. I am quite involved with housing and other council matters and have a reasonable understanding of how policy works. It should be possible to use a Local Letting Policy to invite those who wish to live in a Welsh-speaking community to apply for housing in designated blocks or streets. LLPs can apply to registered social landlords as well as to council properties. But LLPs work within the context of a Local Authority's Housing Allocation Policy, which should be non-discriminatory and allocate by need within LLP criteria where demand exceeds supply, as it usually does. My suggestion of initially filling the new properties from existing Welsh-speaking social tenants (leaving aside the question of how to define those) then backfilling the vacated properties under normal rules avoids the issue of language discrimination at the local authority level. Nobody's chance of obtaining a social home within the LA would be reduced by an LLP implemented as I suggest, whereas applying a language restriction on new applicants would be discriminatory so must be rejected. Your lack of interest in how Reform threatens our multicultural communities is disturbing.

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Quinn

If that can be applied as a permanent planning restriction on the properties before they're built rather than relying on officialdom to do the right thing.

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In reply to Quinn

Lyn E

I don’t believe such a restriction would be possible under planning law, which is concerned with how land is used rather than who uses it. For example, if a shop (use class A1) has been built to an approved design, planning permission is not required to change the owner or tenant, even if that changes the nature of the area (e.g if a supermarket replaces a local retailer) as long as it remains a shop. That has often caused local frustration. I could not support changing the law to facilitate restricting who can live in homes. That really is getting into dangerous territory, opening the way to ‘no blacks, no Irish’. I am nervous even about an LLP but could live with one if tightly bound as suggested. I appreciate the challenges of keeping Welsh vibrant as a lived language. My worry is about setting a legal precedent that could be used in other contexts with very different intentions.

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In reply to Lyn E

Quinn

Doing nothing is not an option. Equality laws were not intended to erase one of the oldest living languages in Europe.

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In reply to Quinn

Lyn E

I have no wish to see Welsh eradicated but we have to be alert to the implications of legal changes.

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In reply to Lyn E

Quinn

Simply saying "you can't do that" without coming up with better solutions is to use the power of the state to suppress a vulnerable minority and no different to anyone else in history that's used the power of the state to suppress a vulnerable minority. Words are no less violent than weapons if the consequences, intended or accidental, are elimination. Platitudes are worse than useless if they are a mask for inaction. You are upset by the idea of Reform potentially forcing other minority groups to only use English yet surprisingly relaxed about it here. How do you intend to defend anyone from state oppression if you can't defend everyone.

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In reply to Quinn

Quinn

First they came for the Welsh speakers and you did nothing.

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In reply to Quinn

Lyn E

At no point have I said that I want to force ANY minority group to speak English. Please stop making stuff up.

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In reply to Lyn E

Quinn

That's the consequence of doing nothing of consequence which is what you are passionately advocating.

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In reply to Quinn

Lyn E

I'm not advocating 'doing nothing of consequence'. I've suggested a way forward that might help achieve the declared objective of sustaining a Welsh-speaking community within the framework of equality and planning laws. If you persist on a course that is quite likely illegal, then you will indeed achieve nothing. And I am also insisting that this matter is handled in a way that does not have unintended consequences that could be prejudicial to Welsh speakers in other contexts or threaten our multicultural communities, who are as much a part of Welsh life as anyone else.

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In reply to Lyn E

Quinn

You came up with a proposal then refused to mandate it. That's exactly what doing nothing of consequence looks like. Equality law isn't intended to enable tyranny by the majority. Equitable support is essential and that means providing more support to minority groups to ensure they aren't disproportionately harmed by the majority. Reform are arguing against higher levels of support to minority groups on the basis that it's discriminatory precisely because they want to terrorise minorities in the name of equality. And here you are making the same argument.

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In reply to Quinn

Lyn E

What do you mean by 'mandate it'? How would you do that? Planning law doesn't allow conditions to be attached to approvals that would restrict who can live in built properties, and certainly not one that would be discriminatory under the Equality Act. Thankfully, we no longer allow developers or landlords to exclude those of the 'wrong' colour or race, as was once normal in the US (not just in the Jim Crow south) and quite common in Britain. I agree that certain minorities, including Welsh speakers, should be supported. But that cannot be done by methods that would be damaging to other minorities or even to the supported minority in a different context. Do you really want to make it legal to exclude people who speak the 'wrong' language, so that councils can evict those who fail an English test or employers sack workers for speaking Welsh in the office? I've made a suggestion that might work. You haven't offered a legal or practical alternative. Do you really want to fix this?

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David J

A Reform council would not be able to remove black and brown people from the housing list, as that would be a clear and flagrant breach of the Race Relations Act. Your analogy is therefore meaningless.

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Lyn E

Good you agree that local authorities should not have a free hand to decide who lives where. Nobody can be sure how far an extreme right wing government would go. Reform has already declared its intention to abolish the Equality Act. In practice, they would be more likely to introduce restrictions based on cultural factors such as religion, arguing that they were necessary to preserve the character of an area. Islamophobia is rampant. Language tests are also quite likely.

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Brian

Just for information. There's a village next door to Trefor called Nant Gwrtheyrn. It houses the Welsh Language National education Centre. It I s a stunning location well worth visiting and any non Welsh speakers would be welcome to attend one of their immersion courses. 1000s have been through the process successfully over the years. And BTW failure/refusal to speak a language is a choice we make. It's not like it's a physical or mental disability that prevents any individual from trying.. Just make a different choice and learn to speak the language of your community and county. You will find it transformative, hugely interesting and hugely rewarding.. Good luck..

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Gruff

Da iawn Cyngor Trefor. Mae angen hyn mewn sawl lle yng Nghymru a hefyd angen rheol blaenoriaeth tai i bobol Cymru dros Cymru yn gyffredinol hefyd This is a much needed rule for areas of Wales. Also needs to be priority for all the people of Wales for most new homes in general wherever they may live in Wales and whatever language they speak. Let’s do this Ironically many within the new emerging rational English patriotism movement will agree and support this policy as there will be similar situations in many areas of England where English now may need to be protected in a simlilar way.

Reply
Lyn E

Who do you want to 'protect' against?

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David J

It's obvious really, isn't it?

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In reply to David J

Lyn E

People should be honest. I’m tired of snidely implied racism.

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In reply to Lyn E

GaryCymru

Oh dear. The racism card. Really??

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In reply to GaryCymru

Lyn E

Yes. Every time my Council posts about new housing, the Reform bots are all over it with ‘wonder who’s going to get these’, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, are you thinking what I’m thinking. I’m sick of it. The comment I queried wanted to ally with the ‘new emerging rational English patriotism movement’. Reform? Tommy Robinson? Outright Nazis like Patriotic Alternative or White Vanguard? We have to call this out.

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David J

What an idiotic analogy! English is in no danger of extinction, and does not need to be "protected", in the way that Cymraeg does. Those living in england who do not have english as a first language generally speak english as well as their native language; indeed, in many cases they speak english better than the "indigenous" english, innit? To suggest that english is under attack is mere xenophobia and racism, because the bigots assume it is under attack as a result of too many black and brown people living in the country.

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GaryCymru

How do you feel about a certain percentage of housing association properties only being available to working couples, or only people over 55?

Reply
Lyn E

Such restrictions are legal only if they comply with equality laws. It would, for example, not be legal to have a working couples LLP that excluded LGBT couples. What Cyngor Cymru are proposing will not work if it conflicts with such laws. My suggestion that a Welsh language LLP is implemented by inviting existing social housing tenants while backfilling through the Common Housing Allocation Policy is intended to avoided that conflict. I would also say that an LLP might not achieve what the community council wants as not all the proposed homes are social housing. Equality laws do not recognise minority status, treating discrimination against a member of a majority as equivalent to that against someone belonging to a minority. Hence, allowing one council to restrict a service to Welsh speakers would permit another council to demand a specified standard of English. That's why it is dangerous to want to change the law around this. The Equality Act does not explicitly protect against discrimination by language but the prohibition of race discrimination covers colour, ethnic or national origins and nationality, and language is seen by lawyers as characteristic of an individual’s national identity. There is scope for discussion about that (most people who identify as Welsh do not speak the language), but it is that presumption that stops employers dismissing staff for speaking Welsh among themselves. Be careful what you wish for.

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Quinn

Language isn't a protected characteristic so any proposal simply needs to ensure any protected characteristic isn't indirectly affected. The way to achieve that is to offer a route to the required language level that is accessible by all. That means a government run language school that is easily affordable and flexible enough to fit around any schedule, with a formal qualification at the end that is enough to meet the language criteria. To encourage and demonstrate inclusivity perhaps communities that want to adopt language restrictions in their area must participate in this government scheme by offering a two week language immersion course once a year which most residents get involved in. Imagine if every year dozens of asylum seekers, bored and unable to work for 18 months successfully work through this scheme, progressing through extensive AI guided computer based training, followed by intermediate level online classes before completing the advanced level community-led residential immersion course to receive their formal certificate to be able to access language restricted property. How could anyone argue it was discriminatory if that was happening?

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Che Guevara's Fist

It's a policy that should be strongly implemented unapologeyically on the eastern and southestern parts of our nation. For obvious reasons.

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Adam

Sir fynwy especially

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FloatingVoter

I'm all for helping to preserve local communities and local language and culture. The problems in much of the UK stem from communities being forced to give up their centuries old cohesion in favour of incomers who bring different languages, cultures and social attitudes. Destroying peoples roots and making them feel embarrassed to just want their localities to stay broadly the same, with gentle evolution, has been a disaster. A huge problem has, and continues to be, the contradictory messages of the harder left and harder right. Plaid, rightly in my view, makes the case for protecting local communities from imposed change in some parts of Wales, but in others celebrates the precise opposite and makes accusations of racism against those who seek that same protection. Likewise, Reform will rightly defend the rights of many communities to be protected from levels of immigration that force unwanted change but oppose that thinking where it relates to Welsh speaking areas. We need cooler heads and more consistency of policy.

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Roger

"communities being forced to give up their centuries old cohesion in favour of incomers who bring different languages, cultures and social attitudes" You're talking about the Germanic arrival, right?

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Lyn E

Learn some history. Migration is not a threat. It is how modern Wales and our communities were built. Migrants bring energy, skills and new ideas. Without them our services would collapse. Wales is a land of immigrants and we should celebrate that.

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Lyn E

The Welsh Language Commission has explained that “no linguistic consideration” could overrule the statutory requirements of the Housing Act. Cyngor Gwynedd’s senior planning manager has explained “policies and decisions must not introduce any element of discrimination against individuals based on linguistic ability. Planning policies must not seek to control housing occupancy on linguistic grounds. I don’t think it can be stated any clearer than this.” The author of this article should apologise for this ill-informed rant.

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Stephen Price

Don't expect him to.

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Stephen Price

It's an opinion piece, Lyn. There's no struggle. Watching people like yourself who aren't even in Wales (A Poole IP address I note) get so enraged by it has been very interesting. All the best.

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Lyn E

IP addresses cannot be relied on to identify location, let alone where the user lives. I grew up in the Rhymney valley and have lived in Cardiff for the past 45 years. You showed far more anger in this article than I have. I observed that local authorities must act within planning and housing law. Do you disagree? Poorly designed precedents could threaten our multilingual communities.

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Stephen Price

Bore da and yes, you're right about IP addresses. I agree with all efforts to preserve Wales' native language and I commend the councillors for doing what they can and raising an important issue. It's an op-ed so I'm entitled to have an opinion, as are you. All the best

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Replying to Quinn Cancel

Your "serious suggestion" was nothing of the sort. Existing housing association tenants can already move by tenancy transfer so unless your proposal includes a language restriction on the new properties they will be joining a long queue of...

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