We need answers: Is Wales paying the price for London's social cleansing?

I haven't read a piece more sinisterly subversive of the plight of those who may be "not our kind of people" since the weeks before the Brexit vote. I'm disappointed to be reading one here. Replace the word "poor" in this article with the word "migrant"; replace the word "Wales" with "UK"; replace the word "England" with, well, with the name of any country or continent where there are people being suppressed or wanting better. Re-read the modified article and note that bitter taste at the back of your throat.

Pretty much spot on.

What took you so long to cotton on to this scandal. Visit Jacothenorth's blog, wade through his archive and you will see evidence of misconduct and mismanagement by UK Government, English local authorities, Welsh local authorities and 3rd sector. No doubt there are other parties to these behaviors also but that will do for a start. They are not only clearing properties to "gentrify" suburbs in major conurbations, but shifting individuals and families, especially those deemed to be "problems", completely out of their regions. One of the solutions is dropping them into Wales as if we haven't got our own native problems who need a damn sight more care and support. No doubt other areas of the UK deemed "peripheral", "low cost", are on the receiving end of this traffic, but we are concerned with what's happening here and it needs a robust response.

Not fair on the families. Unaffordable for Wales.

I remember seeing a documentary some time back on people trying to get help with rent in a London Borough (many were the working poor) and the council being unable to offer the money required, because of the bedroom tax and caps etc. There were some quite desparate people, who would move heaven and earth to stay in London, the place they want to be and many were shown being offered alternatives in Birmingham. There were some quite distressing stories (no doubt some were played up a bit for TV documentary value) and many were distraught about having to uproot their kids from schools and try to find work and set up new lives elsewhere. So there are two sides to this - we need to know if this is real or we are inflating it to satsify some prejudicial fears, but thisn't a scare story invented here - the root of this story is coming from those investigating those being displaced. We need to know the numbers and above all we need to engage with those affected - if people tell us they would rather be elsewhere then shouldn't we assist and support those people and not be complicit in anything that is against anyones will. If people want to move to Wales and are choosing to do so then that is quite a different thing.

Very pertinent questions, but an issue that our own politicians are dodging, as it is contraversial to say the least. However, I agree with you wholeheartedly, as not only can Wales not afford the burden, which is really a secondary consideration, but it's inhuman. What is happening in London is that many estates of social housing are being sold off for redevelopment, with only a fraction of the new housing being allocated as social housing. This has led to a dramatic reduction of social housing in the city. The recent disaster at Grenfell Tower was a direct result of the deficient policies of neo-liberal economics, and though not directly related to this issue, (though, who knows, maybe some former residents of Grenfell Tower may be transported to Wales) it illustrates well the rather ghastly attitudes towards the poor, the disabled and the sick. I think it's high time we started to pressure our politicians into asking questions, and back them up if Westminster parties try to start a smear campaign. Very pertinent questions could be asked about our own sick, poor and disabled, not to mention the effective cut in education spending that is a direct result of our overburdened health and social care budget. It's not displaying a callous approach at all, and many of the organisatons in London attempting to fight the obscene policies of this government would welcome the support of Welsh politicians. From an internationalist Welsh perspective it would be a welcome demonstration of unity through diversity, showing solidarity with ordinary people in London, or anywhere else where similar social cleansing polices are being implemented. However, we need to ensure that our own organisations clean their act up. We need to know what our housing associations are doing, and this is another good reason to oppose the move to no longer consider them as part of the public sector, ostensibly to prevent borrowing by housing associations having financial implications for the Welsh government. Whether housing association finances are regarded as public sector or not, it has financial implications for public finances, as most renters in social housing are reliant, or partially reliant on housing benefit. Hosing associations should also be open to public scrutiny, and therefore should be included as organisations covered by the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act. How can it be that we allow semi-private corporations. (for that is what they are) that spend significant sums of public money to be allowed virtually no public scrutiny? Left to their own devices, our craven politicians will do nothing to improve this dire state of affairs, and I include all of them, with perhaps one or two exceptions. We'll need to pressure them relentlessly until they start to question the housing policies of the complicit local authorities in London, many of them Labour controlled. We also need to start putting pressure on them to reform social housing in Wales so that it once again becomes a country where social housing is run by small, local and accessible organisations with a preference for those who are actively run and controlled by those who live in them, and not a body of unaccountable professional careerists whose only real interest is the obscenely high salaries they are paid. There are many groups in London and elsewhere who are trying to fight gentrification and social cleansing. They need our support.

Article 9 No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile. Article 12 No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. Article 13 1. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State. 2. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. Article 15 1. Everyone has the right to a nationality. 2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality. Article 17 1. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. 2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property. Article 25 1. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. 2. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

I don't understand why Melindwr is defending the forced resettlement of people. With 89% of them suffering mental problems because of the move. Basically they are being moved to make room for healthier, wealthier people. Local authorities in England who are recipients of those forced out due to social cleansing procedures are complaining bitterly that it is bringing huge pressures on their health facilities etc. We need to complain as well, rather than assist in letting it continue. The Chief executive of shelter Campell Robb is speaking out against the sheer volume of those being forced to pack up their bags. We should speak out against those who are creating the problem, rather than adopt it as our own and thereby facilitate social cleansing.

This was obviously written without considering Grenfell Tower. I'm sure that we would all agree that Wales would welcome with open arms all those people made homeless by such a disaster. Imagine if the Jackboot was on the other foot. Ruthless Councils in the Gower and the Vale of Glamorgan wanting people to move out of their areas because they are undesirables. Their mental health made poor by austerity. Would London welcome 'our' people? Yes I'm sure they would.

Something that also comes to mind and links to this, is the way that we have also used the tactics that London boroughs are now using, to move people from our cities, further up the valleys. Something we were very good at doing in the 60s, 70s and '80s, creating some of the most notorious ghettos of their time. The tale of Penrhys comes to mind - there is a cost in the end in trying to find ways to solve the problems that we create and having to do social engineering to undo the problems of earlier failed social engineering experiments. This sort of practice wasn't right then and if it had been effectively investigated and scrutinised we could have stopped a lot of our current problems and issues years ago - why encourage people who would rather be where they are, to move somewhere they don't want to be - it's immoral? Why move people on low wages to places where wages are lower, why move unemployed people to areas where they are less likely to find work, why move people with problems to areas where it harder for them to gain support, why move families who may need the best in terms of education for their children to areas where the education system is underperforming. In the case of learning lessons from old practices, then moving problematic, antisocial people to other places is another red-hot potatoe and needs to be forbidden - passing problems on and creating a critical mass of antisocial behaviour elsewhere is not a solution.

Dafydd Thomas describes a disgraceful state of affairs which should be of fundamental concern to our politicians in the Senate. Has it ever been raised by any of our AMs?

The article is spot on. I didn't find it insensitive at all. I'm interested in this because these families popped up where I grew up. There were several of them and it wasn't clear why they were here. They weren't particularly unpleasant people but seemed to have been cast aside by well, it would have been an English local authority. This is the first article I've read which avoids attacking those people and points out that their welfare is not well served by being places in rural market towns. Unfortunately some articles and commentary about this issue have focussed on the families themselves. That prevents us from getting a fair hearing. We are our own worst enemies sometimes. The author here targets the system, not the people.

People in London are doing something about their situation. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/08/15/towe-a15.html Perhaps we could organise our own protests that not only show our solidarity with them, but stand up for our own particular cause too. We in Wales have are also facing a social housing crisis, somewhat different, but ultimately with the same causation.

No, Melindwr is not defending the enforced relocation of anyone, but he is concernrd about the tone of the piece because of its association of the displaced people, as an entity, entirely with added strains on public services in Wales, increased crime in settlement areas and change in the linguistic features of receiving communities. Hefyd, nid "anti-Welsh BritNat" dw i, ond Cymro pwy sy'n gobeithio fod Cymru'n gallu hedfan uwch golygfa gorgynildeb. The actions of the councils who are responsible for the displacement of these people are indefensible, and this article does well to call them to account. The future of the displaced people and the communities wherein they are deposited is a separate issue from the injustice of their treatment and deserves to be addressed on its own merits.

Can I draw your attention to a few interesting facts. 12 years ago I was working in mental health in west Wales minding my own business until I began to sort out the filing . What did I find , 70-80% of the units' clients were non-Welsh, or not those who had been raised and settled in the area for the majority of their lives. That is a startling fact and what does it tell you? Secondly according to a report by the Bevan Foundation published a few years ago, only about 25% of the population of Ceredigion are paying tax due to low income, part-time workers, ageing population, unfortunately you can replicate that percentage across the rural counties of Wales. Now I am not a mathematician or a statistician but what those figures say is, Wales cannot cope with tending to the casualties that find their way here from England . How the heck will we get any more prosperous looking after those with social problems from over the border? We have plenty of our own to deal with as it is. I have nothing against in -migration as long as they provide a valuable resource for communities and are not a drain- we have a startling shortage of medics in Wales ,but unfortunately they aren't being socially cleansed here!

Bit it's perfectly legitimate to consider "added strains on public services in Wales, increased crime in settlement areas and change in the linguistic features of receiving communities" because these are inevitable consequences of this population movement. Your final sentence suggests dealing with the effects without considering the cause. Which in this case will encourage those responsible to continue social cleansing and view Wales as a willing recipient.

Well if you want to know how London treats the people of the UK, you only have to look at how Westminster treats the people of Cornwall. If Westminster gets its way on carries on the way it treats the Cornish, how do you think it cares about Wales? The only thing protecting the Welsh is its politicians, although the ignorance of Westminster towards law is widely known in Cornwall. Better hope you have good politicians

Migration is as old as the hills. It comes about through travel, adventure, trade, work, marriage, war and as we see in England state persecution of its own. Yet again the weakest being targeted. I was pleased to read someone mention Grenfill Tower. A blatant example of forced relocation at its worse and most deadliest level. If it was just an 'accident' (which I do not believe for a moment it is) then there would be a coroners inquest, but it isn't because it is murder. Cymru has always welcomed migratants, but not on the scale as we are seeing, not from areas abroad where there is conflict or war, but from English cities. The building of houses all over cymru that outnumber local requirements does make you realise that the British have another plan and it is working. Have you not noticed that the British press has been keeping up and gradually widening, a sustained attack on all things Welsh over the past six months, some have posted or commented here and on other social media about such pethetic and outragious journalism. You have to stop arguing and unite and realise what has been going on for centuries and what is being played out before your very eyes. The trouble is too many are willingly blind or blinkered! Most of your arguements cannot be faulted however, some of your perceptions of the whole picture is wanting, lacking or misplaced. Arguing is fine, gets it out there, but if that is as far as it goes at the end of the day why bother? Because, soon you will have NO country worth arguing about or for. There are more issues than this that we face, no less important by any means, the trouble is too many are not facing them and every opportunity to act upon these is sometimes lost in on-line discussions instead of action in all communities and regions across Cymru. You can argue about the left, right and centre, but all the while groups like YesCymru, individual community based action groups, are growing in the wake of self interest politics. Take a look you can get involved, you can make a difference. One of the biggest insults in recent years is the attempt by the British to install that iron ring at Flint Castle. I say attempt because until I know the idea has been unquestionably scrapped I won't believe it. On Monday 18th September there is the petition signed by thousands against the proposal being handed in to the Senedd. The least you could do, if you aren't already going, is turn up to give your support to this act of self determination. Stand up for our people and nation. At the end of the day our Indepepndence is all that will save us as a people and a nation.

The consequences of Ian Duncan Smith’s welfare policies were foreseen and felt early on in the Westminster Conservative –Liberal Democrat Coalition Government (2010-2015) Here’s a link to a Wales on Line article dated 6.11.12 entitled “Plan to move London’s homeless to South Wales is criticised” which contains statements by Huw Lewis the WG Minister for Housing, Regeneration and Heritage (2011-2013) and Dr Victoria Winckler, Director of the Bevan Foundation. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/plan-move-londons-homeless-south-2016177 I make the observation, that while the dislocation of people, the break-up of families and communities and the trampling of culture is universally condemned when this is the result of war, when the same results are achieved by economic or social policy or by free market forces those same voices are often silent. The problem of any protest from Wales against the practice of decanting poor people from one of the richest cities on earth to one of Europe’s poorest regions is the potential for mischief making. Even if (say) an organised group of people from Wales were to hire buses and go down to London to show solidarity with the mistreated poor of that city, this would be open to reinterpretation, and be possibly, a counterproductive distraction. If Wales has or accepts a disproportionate number of the UK’s economically inactive or underactive people (including the old, the sick and the unemployed – people who often have complex needs) then fairness dictates that Wales should be given additional resources from Westminster.

I don't fully understand why statistics are not available. When people move they leave a massive trail, they not only require housing they also need to register with a doctor, enrol their children with the local school, register to vote as well as getting any kind of benefits. Surely the local councils must be able to measure those increases. There will also often be a previous address and doctor. I don't see this as a sinister article as Wales clearly needs to have an understanding and a say in what is going on. I believe this article is aiming to increase the revenue it receives from central government, which seems more than reasonable.

I've just heard this article discussed - or touched on - in Radio Cymru's Sunday morning programme, and again described as 'dadleuol' (controversial). Frankly, I can't understand all the pussyfooting: while it would be good to have exact facts and figures, there can be little or no doubt that this kind of population movement is occurring, and little or no doubt either that it has seriously adverse consequences, both for the often vulnerable people who are transplanted and for the receiving communities. There is nothing particularly 'nationalist', and certainly nothing racist in enunciating this plain truth. This is no trivial point: the process Dafydd describes is having, and can only have, a serious and deep-rooted effect on the demography of Wales, with social, political, cultural and linguistic consequences that there is no room to detail here but which are pretty obvious to anyone who stops and thinks for a few minutes. This is one of the biggest challenges facing Wales, and should be addressed and discussed openly and seriously.

The cost of living (including housing) in London is now so expensive that a large number of people cannot afford to live there, and these are without exception the ones being farmed out to the English provinces. It will only increase as London becomes ever more unaffordable except for those who profit by its economy. The problem for Wales in respect of this is very different to that of the English provinces. This is colonialism pure and simple. Its potential impact on Wales reminds me of the impact on the Aborigines of transportation to Australia, but on a smaller scale. It should be resisted by the Welsh government whose mandate is surely to protect Welsh culture, the Welsh language, and the safety of its people.

I can relate to what the author is saying ,these are facts. It has been happening in Southend-on-Sea in Essex. The landlords have received money from the council to house people from boroughs such as Hackney. The rents are now akin to London prices. My town used to be nice but now feels like you are living in London (along with gang land problems). Add the to the mix the rich people from London have bought houses here putting up house prices. It's difficult to get Dr's appointment, school places etc. If you work and rent here with no benefits you are worse off than the people on benefits who get more than those in trades such as nursing etc.

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/10112475.London_Boroughs_pay_tenants_to_move_to_Southend/

It is not just Wales that has seen a move by London councils to move their homeless elsewhere. Many old seaside towns such as Gt Yarmouth and Margate are now being used by cash strapped local authorities. This article in the Guardian makes interesting reading. https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/sep/04/seaside-towns-among-most-deprived-communities-in-uk Great Yarmouth and Castle Point were the two local authorities in England and Wales with the smallest proportion of over-16-year-olds who had level four and above qualifications, such as higher apprenticeships and degrees.