Wales needs the economic powers to chart a middle course between ideological extremes

Scotland and the North of Ireland have economic measures which give competence to their governments, measures which we do not have such as Airport Duty and Corporation tax. Why? The new economic plan by the Welsh Government has no targets, giving them a plan that can't fail. We need economic levers here in Wales so that we can have a competent government, and a government that does not pretend that it has a Plan when it cannot be shown to be successful with say an improvement in GVA. We desperately need additional economic competences in Wales, it's high time to end the incompetence.

An excellent analysis based on acute, sensible observations Joe Chucas. These are the very primary concerns that we have singled out for our new party to focus on. It is the reason why we call ourselves a 'syncretic' party. We don't adhere or subscribe to the old fashioned and defunct 'right - centre - left' paradigm. We certainly don't subscribe to the dogmas and doctrines of either end of the spectrum. Our whole attention is on the welfare, and prosperity of Cymru as a sovereign nation and NOTHING else, apart from the preservation of our identity projected through our unique culture, history and ancient language. The starting point is the economy. No clever sound-bites, no political correctness, no fashionable 'group think' and certainly no cosying up to the establishment. You say: "A socialist economy is dysfunctional while an ultra-capitalist one is heartless. For Wales, the trick is not to pick between two extremes but to get the balance right." We couldn't have put it better ourselves. We need to think laterally and introduce new ideas and concepts to aid us to put Cymru back on it's feet. That begins with the battle for independence. Without independence we will forever be wedded to the maniacal political powers of the UK, which is a disaster for us in Cymru - as it lurches from one end of the scale to the other between Socialists and Capitalists. Neither must the economies of London and the 'Mini Me' economy of Cardiff be used as the barometer for economic growth and well being in the rest of our country. Our people, their welfare and prosperity MUST be at the top of the agenda, and with our new party they are. You're welcome to find out more by clicking on my username in red above.

There's a great deal of wisdom and sound sense in these words. Socialism (or even the misguided aspiration towards it) has done Wales's economy and culture terrible damage over the past 150 years, and it is self-evident from comparing living standards in Wales to those elsewhere in the UK that the current iteration of Conservatism is not serving us well either. I would however want to take issue with a few of the ideological assumptions which the author seems to betray. One is the idea that what's needed is somehow a middle way, or a balance, between socialism and capitalism. I'd go so far as to say that socialism has been demonstrated to be utterly worthless and counter-productive in achieving its declared aim, having made matters much worse everywhere that it's been tried. It has nothing to teach us, except what not to do. I suppose I'd call the desired prescription 'Classical Liberalism', which differs from Capitalism per se mainly in the extent to which the latter is associated with entrenched vested interests. I'd certainly want to qualify the statement that "those with the broadest shoulders [should] bear the highest tax burden", since this is often interpreted to man that people with higher incomes should pay higher tax rates. This is quite wrong, since it targets the highest tax burdens at the people most able to avoid them, and will often drive the most productive and creative people away into other jurisdictions. Far better to have a simple, flat tax, with none of the complexities that always (and inevitably) introduce loopholes. It should be obvious that with a flat tax it is still the richest who pay the most, but the system is simple and fair and there is far less incentive to try gaming it. Personally as a climate change sceptic I'd also argue with the bit about renewable energy, but that's a small matter for now. Renewable energy is doubtlessly a Good Thing of itself, but I'm not persuaded that subsidising it is a good use of public money. I have nevertheless invested in Riversimple, the hydrogen-powered car company based in Llandrindod Wells, because I think what they're doing is interesting and exciting in its own right.

You must be reading some extremely conservative newspapers if you believe that Corbyn is about to introduce Soviet style communism. As far as I can see he is no more than a fairly normal social democrat advocating the same sort of mixed economy you favour. Given how extremely conservative the UK is and how entrenched the interests of the rich are it remains to be seen whether he will be allowed to actually implement any of his policies or even if he will be able to take power at all.

Good article and fully agree. Many in Plaid need to recognise that socialist policies would be toxic to a newly independent Wales, or Wales in general. Independence would mean a slimming down of the state and fiscal incentives to attract FDI, at least in the short to medium term. I can undestand using socialist rhetoric as a populist tool to win votes, but it needs to stay well clear of the policies themselves.

Joe Chucas, this attitude is exactly what we need. Liberals Cymru is about disconnect for a while, and meditate upon what Humanistic Liberalism means. But if you contact us, we will get back to you by early March. @libcymru - Twitter [email protected]

Useful if standard. Here is the slavish belief in either politics or no politics please. Is politics defined as a 'way of life' or the 'practice of different ideologies' that can never be measured. Or just different means of getting to the same place. In truth it's simple. Those who believe in business, and those in workers rights. We overly complicate. Of course nothing works in the long run. One lever pulled, one lever jams, another leaver pulled, another lever jams. It's cyclical. The powerful of either main parties seek to entrench their own ideologies, as protectionists of the status quo. I believe only in Wales and protecting its own values and interests. These are never fully inderstood or considered by outdated politics of the Union.

I cannot think of China as anything other than a command economy dressed up with a gloss if capitalistic pretence. I don't view their economy as a failure - even if its not what I would wish for in Wales.

Naive claptrap. Capitalism of any form is corrosive, and completely at odds with the interests of workers anywhere. It wouldn't be so bad if your argument wasn't based on a complete fallacy to begin with. your claim: "The track record of socialist countries (such as the USSR, Mao-era China, Ceausescu-era Romania and North Korea) to create prosperity has been pitiful." is nothing but complete balderdash. The idea that the economic system in any of those countries you mention was in any way 'socialist' is risible. The economic systems running in those countries had more in common with monopolistic crony capitalism that anything socialist, as that is exactly what it was, state controlled monopoly capitalism. Only a system where workers control the economy is desirable, as it's only the workers who create wealth. In this there is a Welsh dimension, 'The Miners' Next Step' which outlined the way the coal industry should have been run, and those ideas extend well to other areas of the economy. Please don't conflate the old countries where Bolshevik style dictatorships became conflated with communisim, they were nothing of the sort, and their only utility is as a bogus counterpoint for the politically illiterate in articles such as this. Whilst it's true that those countries were founded on the ideals of socialism, their reality was something far different, and not socialist at all.

Labels such as Socialism and Capitalism confuse people more than clarify. Take Socialism for example. Late 19th century socialism is more akin to Free-market Capitalism in its pure form. The aim was to remove the wealth-extracting middlemen, mainly large landowners, from the equation allowing prosperty to flow to the people as autonomus agents and producers. Late 20th early 21st century Socialism is an entirely different beast. It promotes bloated intrusive governments both controlling the economy and social engineering to suit its ideological flavour. The modern definition of Socialism stands in stark contradistinction to its origins. The same can be said for Free-market Capitalism. The ideals espoused by the Scotsman Adam Smith have been twisted out of context to support a Financial Sector guided Neo-liberalism which is anything but free or just. Simply put, Neo-liberalism replaces the 19th century wealth extracting Land Barons with an even more rapacious middleman known as Banking and Financial Sector. Pitting Capitalism against Socialism merely keeps people having their ideological spats while the real thieves and bullies remain out of sight. We need a small but strong government that keeps the people free from excessive power, corruption and exploitation. Only then can we prosper as free agents. We need a government to provide basic infrustructure like transport, education, power, communications and finance at significantly reduced cost to the consumer - as did early 20th century USA - allowing a level playing field for real wealth creation (as oppsed to the Britsh ideal model of rentier wealth extraction). It was on this basis that the USA became a economic giant. Forget 'Socialism' and 'Capitalism'. These words do more to obscure than elucidate. Lets start talking about real problems and practical solutions.

Thank you both for your kind words, it's much appreciated. I guessed your comment was slightly 'tongue in cheek' Susannah - you little tease you! It's shaping up nicely. Yesterday we had quite a famous councillor from the Pontypridd area registering as an interested person and pledging his support - despite currently representing another party (who shall remain nameless), followed today by yet another councillor who currently represents a different ward and a different party but in the same area. Also today we had an ex-pat living in Finland who pledged support and promised donations. It's quite 'heady' really, and we've kept totally below the radar, but they still come knocking! As for Plaid's little flurry over recent times, who knows? I'd like to think they're getting 'squeaky bums'. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it is a bit of a coincidence. I do know that many who have pledged support for us are from their ranks, and not just ordinary members. However Plaid and the other 'old brigade' parties are of no real interest to us. We have a job to do, and do it we will. We ARE keeping our powder dry until the big day, meanwhile the back door is certainly busy. People are just fed up and can't take anymore from timid and establishment friendly parties who have failed them. They've had their opportunity and failed our country and our people, leaving us in abject poverty and on the verge of losing our identity - that can't continue - we won't let it continue. It's a new dawn, and a totally different way of doing things. Old establishment parties are dead men walking, because the people are waking up all over Europe and further afield, having realised they've been abused and exploited. Time to end it.

As long as the system remains the same, it doesn't matter which side you choose. What's needed is an entirely new system. Look into this, seriously: www.freeworldcharter.org (signing this takes you to a landing page where you'll get a free ebook called Into The Open Economy, an eye-opener talking about a much better system, which is actually happening to a certain extent in the form of Freeworlder.com) :)

I seem to remember that the Liberal Democrats' disastrous 2015 election campaign boiled down to splitting the difference between the other two parties. This party political broadcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20oZiM4kBw8 reveals they had no ideas of their own. What's needed is original thinking beyond just finding a midpoint between supposed extremes of right and left.

The idea of a Wales that rids itself from the tidal throes of a fixed 2 party dominance where only the old plastic flotsam becomes the identifying tidal mark, the better. The depth of concern about a federal Europe, aloof, unelected, omnipotent, has caused Brexit. There are lessons that even now are not recognised. Populism is rampant across Europe. The strictures placed on the Brexit negotiations in Brussels gives testament to the grip of control, and fear of a proliferation of small states waiting to be born. The question, is Wales prepared to be re born, and if so it needs galvanising, and the key to that is unity.