The debate on the devolution of broadcasting highlights the fundamental weakness of Welsh nationalism

Great writing.If Cymru manages to get any freer of the UK tangle nation.cymru might claim some amount of credit.Fingers crossed for more Welsh media.Also always to remember cultural life preceeds economic and commercial revivals.Eg Scotland.1990s onwards.PS a poorer Welsh BBC might still be much better than the present output

With regards to ifan's point about welsh indy not being in the interest of the welsh middle class it's interesting that in both devolution referendums in 97 and 2011 support for a yes vote was highest among the poorest sections of welsh society - people in social classes D and E.Perhaps there's a message for supporters of welsh indy there? On the point of the devolution of broadcasting we must not allow us ourselves to get sidetracked by speculation resulting from the observations of people such as Ruth McElroy. At present most broadcast, print and online media that is read, viewed or listened to by people in wales is owned and controlled outside Wales. There cant be any other country in the world where such a dire state of affairs exists or would be tolerated. The devolution of broadcasting to Wales is a must if wales distinct national identity is to be preserved and built upon.

Doing it through the internet will take an age. Simply because the big media outlets come top of google, have a presence on Facebook and they're known commodities - CLICKBAIT being a factor too. People read the media which best reflects their views and perspectives - whose parameters are set within the education system. We need to change those parameters as the current ones are set to generate a British perspective. Logically if people only read media that best reflect their views then Welsh nationalist media will on large be ignored due to it conflicting with how they are educated to see the world. Think of it... we're taught of all the things that bring Britain together... why would people on large pay attention to media which wants to pull that artificial family apart? Politics of English 101 there.

Welsh Nationalism's chief weakness is that only the Left has a coherent voice. Over %80 of the people I meet in Welsh cultural/Welsh nationalist circles work in the public sector. That is a problem. We need entrepreneurs, we need business people (in Cymraeg). We need nationalists who are not socialist nor Left-wing. We need people who agree on some matters with George Osborne, Nick Clegg, Dominic Grieve and Vince Cable who are Welsh nationalist. And we need those points of view expressed in a non-xenophobic, non-populist way within Plaid Cymru. I'm one. I know there are others. It is our responsibility to come together and get organised.

It doesn't help when the leader of the national party also claims to be an internationalist. It's a contradiction.

A big part of the problem that Ifan points out is that the Welsh middle class, such as it is, is almost entirely employed in the public sector, and therefore at the mercy of / in the pocket of the Labour-dominated Welsh Government of the day. Unlike in England we don't have the broad swathe of lawyers / accountants / small business owners / technologists / engineers etc. that make up the bulk of the middle class there. For sure there are some, but not that many. This of course is a situation that suits the Labour-dominated Welsh Government of the day just fine, so despite their fine words they're not likely ever to make any serious effort to promote a thriving industrial sector in Wales, because that would foster precisely the sort of private-sector middle class which would be the biggest threat to them.

Ifan's done two posts in the same week, one saying the middle classes will lead independence, another saying working class leave voters will be the ones. I suppose he's right and it would end up being both. Also, Ifan would be right that devolution, where powers are only transferred gradually, would be more middle-class driven; although it is also the constitutional preference for all other social classes.

The idea that capitalism is in some way a good or bad thing, is to deny it exits at all by its common appearance, or is exploitative or Is crucial to property ownership and prosperity. You can argue this in so many different ways. It's certainly a strong running engine and needs petrol. It's creative and destructive. It's life giving and it's taken lives. It drives change and is innovative, it can destroy the environment and trash the Mountain side and rivers. It preys on the vulnerable and gives voice to strong through promotion and advancement. People learn skills to drive the company and improve its competitiveness. It can be two way but as often the case exploitative. Be ruthless in its decision making putting profit above all else. A leech on the blood of the education and investments of the state and its structures. You have to decide which it is. But whichever way, there's something to commend and fear. The spectre of zero hours contracts, failed companies, Carillion and others, minimum pay legislation to protect the unskilled, and low skilled otherwise exploited, poaching skilled workers from elsewhere rather than invest in training and development. Why bother let's advertise and steal. The list creeps ever upwards and builds the case of large companies with much resources dictating the future of work pattern and pay and conditions. Even more isolation from the owner and more vulnerable to restrictive employment contracts . A current government pro business, and low on workers rights. To me I see more to worry about than praise. I see the growth of self employment in Wales as the good jobs diminish. These will become the electorate that may decide the future politics in Wales. The self made entrepreneur, that has built his or her castle. Through endeavour. Hard nosed, and good at bookkeeping. Which way will this growing mind set affect comminity life finally play out in voting intentions. Pro or anti independence. Work as we know it is changing. A I is looming large, we need health services, police, leisure and community facilities , good quality investment in infrastructure and transport. The list grows. In reality we need a wealth generating focus, better use of our natural resources, capital investment, higher quality training schemes that invest in all recruits, and promotes growth of talent. And pay wages and pensions according to its ability to pay. This is a matter of Government and its policies of workers rights that we in Wales have fought hard to defend. If left unchecked this will manifest itself in a way that has created poverty in the past and a greater divide of those with and without. That is unforgivable, Wales is rich in human and natural resources. It is also highly political. There is sometimes an under estimation of just what it takes to suvive as a business against current market trends. To me the answer is so simple. Like Welsh Water, a not for profit company, but more John Lewis , the more you embrace people in sharing the profits the greater the commitment and more chance of it thriving. I'm against the butish sting of a capitalism, but recognise its opportunities, but bemoan the lack of progress in a profit sharing culture that puts people as its assets in every respect. More needs doing. I don't overly subscribe to the working class, middle class, upper class definitions. People vote to further their ambitions they hold for themselves. Who drives this change is not the comfortable, but those who want a better deal for themselves, and a better life. The industrial revolution gives us many examples of bravery and leadership from humble beginnings. These are with fire and passion. Read the life story of John Nixon, colliery owner, Deep Dyffryn, Navigation collieries , and WT Lewis of Lewis Merthyr Colliery. The Chartists and Merthyr Rising. Once there's visible injustices in any walk of life there's plenty of examples of those who will champion change, and be bold. There is much to feel that we are on the cusp of major refit of party allegiances. Towards independence. But sadly it's when the wheels fall off the wagon and we spill out.