The battle for YesCymru needs to stop – or there won’t be a YesCymru to lead

Well said ifan - completely agree

I want to see something positive in what has happened. Hopefully, it will force us all to think about what it means to work together respectfully with people whose views, identities, values and beliefs differ from our own. We can celebrate our diversity and make space for everyone in our new independent state. Respect and tolerance!

I've said it here before. I said it in the EGM chat. If YesCymru continues to be a forum for infighting it would be better wound up. And I have said this over and over too - KEEP YESCYMRU SIMPLE. It's not about independence for independence sake. It's not to have a singular political vision either. It's to amplify all the voices of all moderate political hues making the case to establish a WelshNation State. That should be its sole campaign raison d'etre. It doesn't mean that members can't campaign for whatever other causes matter to them. It means they do that via other platforms. It doesn't mean that we don't talk about different constitutional and policy ideas for our future state either. They should all be discussed and presented as possible routes to follow. In fact that would make YesCymru and our cause more credible. If we cannot keep YesCymru simple and a place for all moderates to share then we will only continue the infighting and hole indyWales below the waterline. I agree Ifan - a great deal of damage has been done already.

My other half took part in the zoom meeting today, I watched for a bit but it gave me a headache and a sinking feeling... Still Mr Sheen and his refreshing humanity on BBC Wales News was one bit of brightness in a gloomy day...

Cytuno'n llwyr.

It will take Y.C a long time to recover from its Pythonesque implosion of earlier this year. If the pedants insist on wrecking the movement then it will split, and pedants being what they are they in turn will split again and possibly yet again ! It's our vulnerability to be divided and thus conquered that makes up what we are today. The major blunder was down to divisive people being allowed to enter in the first place. Now I appreciate that a well meaning "part time" organisation can't be on guard against all kinds of intruders but the pirates of 2021 were highly visible and probably could not believe what they were getting away with. The bottom line is that Y C needs to promote its independence message as simply and succinctly as possible. Other interests and platforms should get on with their own messaging. And that bottom line ends with an electorate and the extent to which its demographic buys into the messages. You don't get the votes, you don't get into power.

FFS sort it out. This infighting is a massive gift to Tories and unionists.

Just get together and start fighting for a new wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

O dan un faner, gyfeillion!

It really is very simple. Gaining our independence is not a game. Either YC focuses on its core purpose and actively prevents the 'all about me' brigade from co-opting it, or another group will rise to take its place. The goal is all. Every individual and organisation is disposable in its pursuit.

This is the second time I've seen the expression "independence for independence's sake". In any context it's a strange one but when aimed at a movement whose sole raison d'être is to campaign for independence, it's not only nonsensical but also, given the context in which it's being used, apallingly destructive. The implication, clear or subliminal, is that independence should only be used as a lever for achieving some other goal of greater importance, and that it's morally questionnable when compared with any number of other agendas. My suspicion is that it will only be used by... those with their own agendas. YC, you really need to get back on track with a much clearer view of your purpose before you haemorrhage away the remainder of your support through that cancerous exclusivity, or the laughable incompetence of your contractors. If the best person for a job is female, then hire them. If the best person for a role is asian then hire them too. If the best applicant for the post is English then bloody well hire them. If they're a tory? Yes ffs! Sixteen or eighty-six? Duh. If you base your choice on anything other than competence then you are not making a good desision. If every one your applicants are left-leaning white cis het male 40-something year-olds then you're not advertising the vacancies in the right places and you've already failed before your first step to inclusivity. Drop the BS. You can succumb to the worms and fall apart in egotism and partisan squabbling when the job's done. Your purpose is gaining independence for Wales. Nothing else.

Doesn't have to be complicated, just one clear message like this from the Scottish Yes campaign: News — Yes or a groundswell as seen in Catalunya. If the zeitgeist is for independence, it happens in people's minds and behaviours. A movement is needed to give courage to individuals, companionship and a voice for shared ideals, cohesion to the arguments. It's about the psychological drive for nationhood, not whether it's run by volunteers or paid staff. The organisational structure should flow out from the desire. Be its servant not its master. If not YesCymru, another will emerge. Just ask ourselves, how much do we want self-determination? How much work will we put into making it happen? It's about patience, focus and clarity.

As much as I love what YesCymru have done so far (for the most part), and am cautiously optimistic about the future of this organisation, we mustn't think of it as 'the' independence movement. It's the biggest so far, a good vehicle. Too much drama internally isn't helped by hysterical hair-pulling about the ramifications of this one organisation falling. We hope not, it probably won't, but the hearts and minds of the Welsh public increasingly tend towards indy, not YesCymru, plaid cymru or any organisation. The people of Wales are regaining a faith in themselves, not these groups. Too much looking to Scotland or Catalonia or places that are very different to Cymru - all these other movements have tied their journey towards freedom on to a partisan political post. How's that gone for them? You may think "they've gone further than we have" - yes, and failed. We still have a chance to succeed at the first attempt, peacefully, and not escaping from a dictatorship or an empire or a state of war - the first such case in history. A real grass roots movement doesn't speak in terms the grass roots don't understand (and, quite often, openly dislike). Instead of clamouring to defend that which has failed (leanne wood being the ONLY sitting AS to lose a seat, the last pwyllgora implosion) why not learn the obvious lesson. Politics as they are currently practiced has no truck with the majority of people in Wales. It's a massive turn off - no trust, no care, no vigour. Speak plainly - Annibyniaeth i Gymru ac i'r Cymry, hynny yw, i bawb yng Nghymru. Nawr ac yn fythol.

Some decent sentiments here from Ifan, and who could disagree with the notion that some form of unity is now sorely needed to restore the organisation's fortunes. But it''s slightly naive to believe that this new unity can spring up organically, without engaging first and foremost with some really hard and difficult questions. Ifan says the present crisis is nothing to do with those who run YES Cymru. Unfortunately, ttat is ,signally not the case, when you consider that the management of YES Cymru has been in the hands of two separate companies for months now, i.e Azets, an accounting company and BAK a social media and PR firm. For all the sterling efforts of the Gweithgor in envisaging a completely new structure for the movement, they were hamstrung by not having full access to what exactly was going on under the watch of the aforementioned companies, delegated and paid handsomely to 'run the organisation'. Although to 'ruin the organisation' migt be a more apt description in view of the fact they allowed a nominally 18,000 strong organisation to slip to 8,000 official members in 6 months. And the fact that they suppressed this information until the very day of the EGM itself also makes one wonder what exactly were the terms of reference laid out for them by the departing central committee. The loss of 10,000 members has been downplayed by some as just a simple adminsitatve oversight-and indeed some of these lapsed members' might well rejoin before the new EGM vote deadline.on Wednesday. Although there are already reports of many of these ' non-members' taking a very dim view of the fact that the organisation has still been taking monthly subscriptions from their bank accounts since April. Whether these members take action on this form of taxation without representation remains to be seen. But it just adds to the perception that this is an organisation which has now been reduced to eating itself. And there are wider ramifications too of course. The unionist media have had a field day in highlighting what they term a calamitous drop in support for Welsh Independence.. This will now be referred to and repeated ad infinitum. It's just an absolutely disastrous start to what was meant to be a re-launxh of the whole campaign. There's no getting away from that fact unfortunately. And unless the afore mentioned issues are dealt with honestly and transparently, no real progress will be possible. Let's hope for a decisive YES on Wednesday, but let's hope as well that ordinary members get to know the truth of what has been going on these past few months. .