Should we translate Welsh literature into English?

When I began learning Welsh in 2002 I also tried to find out everything about the nation's culture, in all its forms. I noticed people banging on about Kate Roberts, so I bought 'Feet in Chains' to have a go at... and I couldn't see why she was popular! Such a 'correct' and heavy translation. It wasn't until I did Safon Uwch that I could read 'Te yn y Grug' - and then I understood. Translation is so difficult to get right. A few years ago I read 'Anna Karenina', translated into English by a Russian woman and her English-speaking husband - translators with soul. Brilliant! - as in a) wonderful, and b) sparkling! I would request all potential Welsh-English translators to read it, as an example of how a translation can (should) enhance the original literature.

A very interesting and thoughtful essay. I have read quite a few Welsh novels, and a firm favourite of mine is Mihangel Morgan, though I have also extensively read the works of Kate Roberts. I've not read much Welsh language literature in translation, only having once read Traed Mewn Cyffion in English once, to compare it to the Welsh original before passing the novella on to a non-Welsh speaking friend. I was brought up to respect the integrity of the original works in their original language. my father being firmly of the belief that a language itself is part of the work, and that something is always lost in translation. Anyone who has attempted to translate works of literature will appreciate the cultural nuances that can only work in the language of the original. However, it would be to deny the world access to the literature in our national language if we were to prevent translations. The issue for many, I suspect, isn't so much that Welsh language works are being translated into English, but that the context and juxtaposition of Welsh and English and it's cultural domination of everything that make it contraversial to translate. If English wasn't the language of the country next door, the country that rules us, I doubt that translation into English would be anything like as inflammatory an issue. If the nearest English speaking country was the USA, a full 3,000 miles away, it wouldn't be seen as contraversial at all. However, that would be to deal in 'what ifs'. So, we are left with accepting that our literature needs to be translated into English, and far less contraversially into other languages as well. But I agree with you, there are some large caveats that have to be stated, and perhaps also something to stress that something is always lost in translation, as, sadly, many English speakers seem to be under a misapprehension that all languages other than English are merely English in translation! The concomitant of which, is a sense of wonderment as to why anyone should be so perverse in writing in languages other than English in the first place. Of course, I exaggerate, but I think people will certainly get my drift, as many of us will have met quite a few, for whom English is the norm. Personally I'd always suggest to anyone learning Welsh to start to try and read as much and as widely as possible in Welsh rather than Welsh language literature in translation. It will certainly be a struggle, and painfully slow, as well as making the brain hurt somewhat, but the bounty is a far greater understanding of Welsh at a deeper level that can ordinarily be obtained through daily social intercourse.

This is a really interesting conversation. Adam has set out a comprehensive reasoned case for translation. Personally, I think the existence of the big bear next door is not an argument against translation into English. Far more important is the need to alert the non-welsh speaking majority within Wales to the totality of their nation’s culture

Of course it should be translated into English as well as into any other language where there may be interest.

I agree with Geraint Talfan - an interesting conversation, which touches on a number of important issues for those of us who care about the Welsh language and its culture. I would emphasise Adam's caveat that translation should not be too immediate - let the original have the field to itself for a decent length of time. Thank you Adam - I look forward to further contributions.

Mr. Pearce speaks Cymraeg, so a basic English translation below y Gymraeg. Uchafiaeth/Blaenoriaeth (primacy) yw’r gair allweddol. Dwi’n mwynhau diwylliant nad ydy cyfieithu neu ymnewid ffurf ar gyfer diwylliant arall, Saesneg yn yr achos ’ma, gan mai anghyfieithedd naws a chraidd yw hanfod diwylliant iach. Dwi’n meddwl fod pobl yn rhy eiddgar ystyried beth mae siaradwyr Saesneg yn meddwl am y Gymraeg. Does dim ots beth mae siaradwyr Saesneg yn meddwl, does dim angen esbonio eich hunan ar gyfer diwylliant arall. Os daw cyfieithiad ag arian i’r Gymraeg, mae’n dda, ac mae’n dda allforio’r Gymraeg i wledydd tramor. Ond mae cael cyfieithiadau o’r Gymraeg yng Nghymru ei hun am bob dim yn beth perigylus. Mae urddas cael byd sy’n uniaith Gymraeg yn bwysicach na chaniatáu mynediad drwy iaith arall I Lenyddiaeth Gymraeg. Oes os gan Saesneg yr hawl cael profiad byw yn llwyr yn y yr iaith Saesneg, a’r urddas sy’n dod a hynny, wedyn mae’r Gymraeg dioddef anghyfiawnder a sarhad drwy ddweud nad ydy’n deilwng cael urddas profiad uniaith Saesneg a rowyd i’r Saesneg ledled Lloegr a thraws y byd. Yn hynny o beth, gwelais rywun rhywle’n awgrymu arwyddion uniaith Gymraeg yng Ngwynedd a broydd o gylwch y sir honno. Byddai diffyg cyfieithu ar arwyddion cyhoeddus fel ‘na ar hyd ardaloedd helaeth yn ddaearyddol roi urddas I’r Gymraeg. Hynny yw, mae cyfieithu’n dda cyhyd a dydy e ddim yn amharu ar allu byw yn gyfan gwbl yn y Gymraeg. Primacy is the key word. English speakers have the dignity of living in their language without translations. Cymry deserve same level of dignity. Translation as foreign export to strengthen the Cymry with prestige is good. At home, demanding road signs in Gwynedd be entirely in Welsh is a start. Translating everything to English shows a lack of dignity and self-respect. Not to mention live translation service in our Senedd only works 1 way; that's a serious lack of dignity and respect when you cannot listen to your elected members entirely in your own language because translation is English-focused.

Ultimately, languages don't translate. I have read the English version of 'Un Nos Ola Leuad' and it is a mess. It wouldn't even work if it was written in southern Welsh dialect. The same applies to Welsh translations of English books. Take Roald Dahl, for example. The delight of his work is his mastery of the English language and invented words like snozzcumbers and dandyprats. I bought the Welsh version of the 'Twits' for my niece and found it sterile.

What's the issue? I am an avid reader of Marquez, Borges, Murakami, Simenon and no end of Scandi/Italo/Hispano crime fiction writers. ‘Un Nos Ola Leuad’ may be a mess but the Welsh text adjacent to the English was a smart move.

Also going beyond translations, what about re-interpretations or having books in English that are unashamedly based on the Welsh original, but in the style of another author and maybe with different characters and settings, that appeal to a different audience. Throughout history tales and stories have been retold best, when they have been reinvented for other languages and cultures, by adapting and imposing new styles onto them. The same could and probably should be done more in moving storylines into Welsh as well, copyright rules permitting. I have read some books in Welsh where the style has been great and very readable, but the plot or storyline has been weak and disappointing. I have also read books in English where the storyline can just about manage to carry it off, but the writing style might be well below par. A good story, well told is what we need and if the Welsh stories and books are good, then it might just need the right person to tell it well in English, which means have the freedom to chop it up, radically modify it or slice and dice into pieces, rather than expertly translating it.

I've read 4 different English translations of War and Peace. The earliest was 19th Century and the latest about 10/15 years old. It's like reading 4 different novels. I don't read Russian so I still haven't read the real "War and Peace". On the other hand, without the translations I would have missed out completely. A lot depends on the quality of the translation. I remember a time fairly recently when Amazon didn't even bother to name the translator of the books they were selling. Things are better now.

Having read many translations and adaptations of books from English to Welsh and from Welsh to English, I tend to agree with Trailorboy that adaptations work much better than proper translations. Many of the classic Welsh language books; Enoc Huws, Traed mewn Cyffion, Yn ôl i Leifior etc; work because their dialect helps give a sense of place and time which is lost in translation, but might be able to be recovered by sensitive adaption. A good example of an adaption done well is Jim Jones' Tan y Wenallt, adapted from Dylan Thomas' Under Milk Wood. Obviously it would be difficult to translate Thomas' double entendres and word plays, but Jim replaces them with word play that works in Welsh rather than meaningless direct translations. By all means make Welsh language literature available in English and other languages, but through sensitive adaptation rather than stiff translation.

Fferyllt? Homer? Llorca? Neruda? The Epic of Gilgamesh? Kallevalla? Three of those are in languages that no longer exist and I speak neither Spanish nor Portuguese. The works of the world are all made in first languages and shared via translations. The only issue that should prevent us from sharing our literature with the other 7,000,000,000 who don't speak Welsh should be finding someone who can do a good translation that will sell the works. It's not the translation that's the worry but whether llyfrau yn y Gymraeg will disappear. There are two main things that govern that and they are the web and England. The way the web and reasonably free access has changed the way we encounter all forms of art has affected the businesses that rely on old technologies and therefore how we the public consume these arts. Netflix is now pouring more money into television that ITV, kindle allows us to carry 20 books on holiday in an A5 notebook, my daughter has a record player but listens on spotify. Publishing in Welsh is small, with small margins and very low levels of public subsidy and support. So these changes will affect how and how many people access our novels, poetry and more. And much more than whether publishing something in English is going to prevent Cymry Cymraeg from reading literature yn y Gymraeg. England is a problem because any money we get to support our literature is mediated through the DCMS and if they choose to cut the amount of money that arrives in the Assembly then that gets passed down. However, I've had two very successful albums funded by crowd funding campaigns, sell small but profitable amounts of CDs at gigs and use the internet to reach new audiences who pay me for my work. It is entirely possible to bypass "traditional" publishing methods (paper, print, ink) in the same way that the music industry has done. Once we realised that the major labels were just banks, lending money at eye-watering interest rates for access to their exclusive publishing and manufacturing resources we, as sector, completely re-invented the music industry. It may mean that there will be more work published, not less. It may mean that our writers who are not subsidising Victorian banking models in our publishers actually earn some money. That might be good, don't you think?

I'm coming to this a bit late after being away on business for the last couple of days, but as the author of a recent translation myself it goes without saying that I agree with all four of Adam's arguments in favour (although the third of them seems a bit shaky based on my experience) and all three of his caveats. My own motivation in translating Daniel Owen's Rhys Lewis was partly personal, partly a desire to raise the profile of Welsh-language literature outside Wales, and in the particular case of Rhys Lewis to draw people's attention to a critical moment in Welsh history when the nonconformist denominations were beginning to abandon the gospel, with dire long-term consequences for the culture, politics and economy of Wales. The dilemmas I experienced when doing the translation (some of which I discussed with Adam at the time) have already been highlighted by some of the other commenters. The cast of characters included people who spoke many different kinds of Welsh (High Victorian, Flintshire dialect, pidgin, 50% English/50% Welsh, and everything in between) and rendering all this into readable English, neither stultifyingly Victorian nor jarringly modern, was a huge challenge which I won't claim to have carried off in full. It also contained a lot of poetry, most of which I translated fairly literally into English blank verse while putting the Welsh originals into an appendix; in the case of a particularly precious hymn by Robert ap Gwilym Ddu ("Mae'r Gwaed a redodd ar y Groes") I translated the original words literally, then got an English poet to versify them and finally commissioned a new tune, which has since been published in an English hymnbook and we sing it in our church in Shropshire. I'd like nothing better than to be able to do more translations, but for me it's strictly a part-time activity - Rhys Lewis was done at the rate of about one hour per week over several years - so I'd be just as happy to see others engage in it. Wythnos Yng Nghymru Fydd needs doing within the next 15 years before we reach the time that Islwyn Ffowc Elis was writing about.

Mae'n ddrwg gen i, roeddwn i'n bwriadu danfon e-bost atat ti yn bersonol i ddweud, ond rhywsut fe esgeulusais i wneud hynny. Erbyn hyn mae pawb arall yn gallu gweithio allan yn rhwydd, trwy dreulio tair munud ar Google!

Englihs below: Nid hynny ydy'r pwynt: iawn mi allech chi gyfieithu rhai o'r 'mawrion' i'r iaith saesneg. A fyddai'r sais cyffredin yn werthfawrogi? Os am gyfieithu, yn fy marn i byddai'n well wneud i ieithoedd eraill lle mae mwy o ddiddordeb a lle o gydymdeimlad at ein pethau ni. Y gwir gyfeiriad i gyfieithu ydy o'r Ss i'r Gymraeg. Yn anffodus, mae llawer o bobl yn glywed am lyfrau saesneg ac yn gofyn amdanynt. Mi fyddai'n beth iach i bobl darllen y llyfr newydd, am dymor byr, enwog mewn gyfieithiad. Mae hyn yn digwydd yn aml efo llyfrau enwog o'r UD cael eu cyfieithu i Ffrangeg, Almaeneg ac ieithoedd eraill. Yn bersonol, mi ydwyf wedi elwa o gyfieithiadau megis llyfrau Narnia ac yn fwy ddiweddar dim llai na 'Harri Potter a Maen yr Athronydd'. Mae'r cyfieithiad yn haeddu gwobr dwi'n meddwl. That isn't the point: yes you can translate some of the 'greats' into englush. Would the average Englishman appreciate them? If translation is important, in my opinion, it would be better to translate to other world languages where there would be more interest and sympathy in our affairs. The true direction for translation is from English to Cymraeg. Sadly, many of us hear of 'trending' books and wish to read them. It would be healthy to read them in translation to Cymraeg. This frequently happens with the 'new' book from the us of death being translated into many world languages. i personally have benefitted from translation of the books of Narnia into Cymraeg (i'm a learner). More recently have read harrypotter and the filosofers stone in translation to Cymraeg. This book (yn y Gymraeg) deserves greater attention, i believe. Same argument for film: Dub into Cymraeg.

Interesting discussion! But one gets the impression from many of the comments that Welsh writing and publishing exists in a commercial vacuum, designed for the delectation of a small academic community. There seems to be a presumption that it does not actually matter whether anybody out there on the high street WANTS what is written, published and translated. Sorry to be a party pooper, but we in Wales need to embrace the fact that novels are products in a highly competitive market place. If they are good, people will want to read them and will pay good money to buy them. If they are not good, they should not be kept afloat in a subsidy culture, but should sink without trace. It's a tough old world out there. So it's not a matter of whether Welsh books SHOULD be translated. If they are good enough they WILL be translated, because somebody or other will see in them a commercial opportunity. Simple as that.

"Y gwir gyfeiriad i gyfieithu ydy o’r Ss i’r Gymraeg." / "The true direction for translation is from English to Cymraeg." I completely disagree. Welsh speakers are bilingual so why would we want to read English books in Welsh when we can read the original? This is already done too much with children's books in my opinion. We need more original children's books in Welsh and books translated from other languages than English (even if English has to be used as a pivot language because of the lack of Welsh translators able to understand other languages).

"one gets the impression from many of the comments that Welsh writing and publishing exists in a commercial vacuum, designed for the delectation of a small academic community" Not true. There are plenty of Welsh books read by ordinary people, biographies and the like. I would actually argue that we don't have that many 'academic' books in Welsh.

"Wythnos Yng Nghymru Fydd needs doing within the next 15 years before we reach the time that Islwyn Ffowc Elis was writing about." Hasn't it already been done as A Week in Future Wales? As regards Un Nos Ola Leuad / One Moonlit Night, I saw a play in English about 20 years ago and it didn't jar with me at all. They'd left some Welsh words and syntax in.

"By all means make Welsh language literature available in English and other languages, but through sensitive adaptation rather than stiff translation." I'm not sure I agree here. Of course a translation shouldn't be too literal and any good literary translator would know that, but an adaptation usually means changing the names and place names etc. to suit the target culture e.g. Begw going to chapel would become Jane going to church. I wouldn't want that to happen to Welsh novels and would rather a foreignised translation rather than a domesticised one with some words maybe left in Welsh to give a flavour of the original.

As a bilingual Welsh–English speaker, I was delighted with Philip Mitchell's translation of "Un Nos Ola Leuad". For me, it captured just about as much of the original work as could possibly be hoped for. I doubt that many people could have done a better job given the colossal complexity of the original work. As translations go, it was a Herculean task and even Caradoc Prichard (who spoke and wrote commendably fluent English for a living!) readily admitted his own inability to translate his masterpiece into English. Regardless of any objections anybody may have against the translating of Welsh literature into other languages, the overriding reason in favour of such translations must surely be that such translations raise the international profile of Wales and of its Welsh-language writers.There is so much beauty in Welsh literature. It would be a tragedy for both Wales and the rest of the world if it could not be shared with people of all nations.