Should we be using the word Welsh to describe ourselves?

' People now call themselves Welsh with pride. That is because the word has been subsumed by a new paradigm. It is the paradigm of the Cymry; the paradigm of the compatriot. This is how it should be understood.' Spot on - but it's those 3 feathers that get up my pipe...and spelling cwtsh with a 'ch'...

I’m fine with Welsh, but I think there should be a campaign to remove these synonyms from thesaurus.com, replace welsh with any other peoples; Synonyms for welsh bamboozle bilk cheat con deceive defraud dodge duck dupe fleece flimflam fool gull hoodwink sandbag scam shaft stiff sting trick weasel beat around the bush cop out pull a fast one rip off slip out take for a ride take to the cleaners worm one's way out of

. I think this type of discussion is something for us so called "culturalists" to get onboard with first ..... there are many much more basic facts and ideas to disseminate to the Welsh first ...... I still meet many mainly older people who think Wales is just an English county or Principality Camau bach / Small steps

I think the word Cymry has the same etymology as the word comrade so that is fine with me.

Instead of 'Welsh', I use the term 'Cambrian' more and more when speaking in English.

I can't understand why we as a nation who are not represented o the union flag or union jack are inclined to shroud ourselves in it if we were. It is a representing our neighbours namely Scotland, England and Northern Ireland. I believe the time is long overdue to address it. Would any Welsh person wrap themselves in the Italian flag for example.

Surely speaking as a 1st language Welsh speaker Cymru is Wales where's Cymraes a Cymro are Women and men in Welsh not Cymry.

Might be worth checking Wales meaning foreigner: https://pedwargwynt.cymru/adolygu/gol/wales-englands-colony Maybe its incorrect.

I always use Cymru (gwlad) and Cymry (people). Dislike the English names intensely.

And are we a gwlad or a cenedl?

Not a big deal really is it ? The thing that matters is our liberty, then we can go on to call ourselves whatever we choose. There again something as simple as "identity" is considered offensive by so many progressive folk who engage in these debates.

Welsh speakers call each other Cymry/Cymro /Cymraes... As let's face it anyone East of Bridgend/Rhyl are not really Cymry anyway. So it's quite handy to have "Welsh" as a band t h at differentiates between English people and Anglicised Cymry.

Wealas is the plural of wealh. Wealas means foreigners and wealh means foreigner. Also, Saxons didn't invade England as it's named after the Angles a Germanic tribe. Genetive 'Engla' and 'land'you get Englaland 'land of the English' in old English or Ænglisc ( as it was called back then). Engle +isc 'of the Angles.' The incoming Germanic folk mixed with the Britons. The old clean sweep 'theory' isn't really favoured... Some say English has a Brythonic substrate but that appears in middle English for some reason. Written Ænglisc texts do not convey a Brythonic substrate.

Wealh in Englisc was from Proto-Germanic Walhaz which is said to be loan from the Gaulish tribe the Volcæ. Gauls were foreign too ie not Germanic... Walnut comes from Ænglisc wealh hnutu ' foreign nut' so the word didn't exclusively refer to the wealisc.

According to John Davies in A History of Wales, the word Welsh may derive from a more subtle meaning than 'foreigner', ie 'the Romanized people'. In that sense, the description Welsh could be seen as 'those civilized, cultured buggers who think they're better than us'. And that's us Welsh through and through. That said, I prefer Cymry.

I like the word Cymry too. I think we need a word that describes the people of Wales that is not necessarily connected to people's use of language. My children and grandchildren were born and brought up in Wales. Half went to welsh language schools, half didn't. I speak Welsh but my husband doesn't. It really makes my teeth itch when people assume that that English speakers in Wales aren't as Welsh as Welsh speakers. I expect ALL my children and grandchildren to have the same opportunities to take part in the cultural life of this country. Having a word that describes one people would be a good start.

I have a different take on this https://diem25cymru.org/2019/05/25/wales-is-so-european/

The word Wealas was used for anyone not of Saxon origin. Therefore, those of Viking extraction were also Wealas

When we gain independence THEN we can decide what to call ourselves. For now Welsh with pride and Cymry with calon. Let’s not alienate English speakers at the moment as that would be counter-productive. Now that Maj has given the Buffoon permission to prorogue Parliament let’s hope that has been played to our advantage. Never has there been a better time to have a meaningful dialogue on independence. Neither of them are thinking about the people of ALL UK nations.

Dwi"n Cym.ro, siarad Cymraeh a byw yn Cyndi. But if im asked in English I'll say Welsh!

"Every time I ask people here if they are British, they always say they are Welsh" - African taxi driver to me, in Wrecsam. (btw , Agatha Christie had Hercule Poirot as a Walloon.) Can we now get over this basic stuff, please?

The Iñupiat of Alaska have changed their name for their Dene Athabascan neighbours: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/elders-inupiaq-tinaaq-1.5255345 In Common Brythonic, Wales was *Kombrogî, a Welshman was *Kombrogos, the Welsh language *Kombrogikâ. It might take a while to convince the English to phase out Wales in favour of Kombrogî.

I fully agree, and have been saying this for years. The word Welsh as an adjective can be replaced by the convenient “Cymric” which is similar to the Welsh “Cymraeg” and “Cymreig”. As an aside, I highly recommend John Cowper Powys’ book Obstinate Cymric - he used the world often in his writings. His historical novel Owen Glendower is well worth a read also.

A Welsh Ph. D in linguistics, Gareth Roberts, states that the name Welsh comes from a huge Old Celtic tribe, the Volques (Tectosages, Arecomici, or even those who lived in Hesse, in today Germany). He says that when the Germanic tribes met the Celts in Britannia, they called them like the Continental Celts they knew, and if Wallas comes from Wolkwes, then it does not have a negative meaning at all. The fact that the Anglo Saxons re wrote their history in Brittania, only speaks negatively about their own selves. I found this version interesting and wanted to share it.

From https://old-engli.sh/trivia.php?ID=Wales The Germanic tribes of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes invaded England in the fifth century and also brought along with them the word walha. They used it to refer to the local Romanized Celtic population. But the encounter between British Celts and Anglo-Saxons was not a peaceful one: The invaders quickly displaced, murdered or enslaved the Celtic-speaking peoples. Gildas, a sixth century British cleric, writes about his fellow Celtic countrymen: "Some […] were murdered in great numbers; others, constrained by famine, came and yielded themselves to be slaves for ever to their foes, running the risk of being instantly slain, which truly was the greatest favour that could be offered to them. […] Others remained still in their country, committing the safeguard of their lives, which were in continual jeopardy, to the mountains, precipices, thickly wooded forests, and to the rocks of the seas." (Gildas' On the Ruin and Conquest of Britain, 25) Even though the attackers were the newcomers to the land, they called the ancestral population the wealas, 'strangers.' The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle records,    473 A.D. þa wealas flugon þa Englan swa fyr.    '473 A.D. the Welsh fled from the English like fire.'    607 A.D. And her Æþelfried lædde ferde to Legaceastre & þær ofsloh unrim Wealana. & swa wearþ gefylld Augustinus witegunge þe he cwæð, "gif Wealas nellaþ sibbe wið us, hie sculon æt Seaxena handa forweorþan."    '607 A.D. And this year Ethelfrith led a troop to Chester and there murdered a huge number of Welsh people and thus was fulfilled Augustine’s prophecy when he said, “if the Welsh don’t wish peace with us, they shall perish at the hands of the Saxons."' More clearly than in other languages, walha took on the meaning not just of foreigner but of 'the other' in Old English; it became a term for an inferior race, worthy of enslavement. Without mercy or shame, the Anglo-Saxon invaders gradually forced the Welsh from the rich, arable plains of the East to the rough, barren mountains in the West. And these are still the regions where the Celtic-speaking minorities live to this day, Wales '(the land of the) foreigners' and Cornwall, with Corn- referring to the original tribal name of the inhabitants and -wall from Old English 'foreigner.' Welsh comes from the corresponding adjective, welisc, wælisc 'foreign.' Subsequently, the Old English word Welsh even allowed for its interpretation as 'slave.' For example, the Old English rendition of the Old Testament directly translates Latin seruus with wealh. Old English: Se Ebreiscea wealh, þe ðu hider brohtest, eode in to me þæt he me bysmrude Latin: Ingressus est ad me seruus Hebræus, quem adduxisti, ut illuderet mihi. Modern English: 'The Hebrew slave, whom you brought hither, came in to me to ridicule me.' (Genesis 39:17) Another reference to Welsh as a slave comes from Riddle number twelve of the Exeter book. It asks for the name of a thing that first moves around on green meadows, but, once dead, is turned into thongs, shoes or wine flasks, which are then served and cleaned by Welsh slave girls. What could that be? Well, most scholars believe the answer to the riddle should be "leather." The word wealh is also used in a racially discriminatory sense in the Laws of King Ine of Wessex from the late seventh century. The law assigns - even to free wealas - a lower social rank than to an Englishman, as the compensation paid for killing them was lower for the former than for the latter.