Rethinking Y Wladfa

Da iawn. Well done for writing this

I'm afraid my impression is that the history is somewhat greyer and more complex than described here (e.g. see Chupat-Camwy Patagonia: Historia de la coexistencia pacífica entre galeses, pampas y tehuelches by Marcelo Gavirati publishd by Patagonia Sur Libros ISBN 978-987-25657-7-0)

Excellent article. It's good to point stuff like this out so we don't get over-inflated with nationalistic pride and forget to be decent human beings. Is that Dave Llewelyn who used to work at Llandough Hospital in the Eighties?

Majority of this is utter Nonsense, The Britons were praised by the natives as being complete opposite to the Spanish settlers. The Britons often asked permission for anything they needed doing and got on well with them. Another fine example of breeding self hatred among the British. Cymrophobia knows no bounds.

It has become fashionable in certain circles outside Cymru to rope Y Wladfa in with British imperialism; it was nothing to do with it. This article takes a different tack, attempting to suck the Welsh settlers into the genocide campaign known euphemistically as the War of the Desert. The Cymry were in fact vehemently opposed to it, and had good relations with the indigenous inhabitants. Far from being arrogant colonists, the Mimosa pioneers and those who followed them were more in the nature of 'cultural refugees' from a remorseless anglicisation of their homeland. Sorry to have to dispel the myth, but it shouldn't really have been necessary.

Can I advise Native.Cymru to fact-check articles before they are posted because this is not the first article to contain historical inaccuracies. Posting opinions is one thing but posting factual errors is another. Michael D. Jones did not sail on the Mimosa nor did he move to Patagonia.

Where was the fact checking for this? Ofnadwy

The migration to Patagonia has to be seen in the context of events of that time. The processes of colonisation, marginalising of natives, even their extermination have to be taken into account. So too the marginalisation and overt assimilation of "Welshness" in the migrants' own country. Displacement was a feature of 19th century world wide imperialist patterns. Much to our shame it happens today. We can't do much about stuff that happened 100-200 years ago other than acknowledge it as fact but the displacements of today pose a real challenge which demand action rather than deferring it to another rather pointless academic critique sometime in the 22nd century.

My understanding is that the Government of Argentina told people that there was land available for the people of Wales if they wanted it. The people of Wales traded with natives and did not take part in any killing. The people who speak Welsh there now are descendants of the original settlers (possibly some wanted to learn Welsh) and nobody was forced into learning Welsh then or now. Going by invite and then settling is totally different to what had gone on before so it is not fair to tar the Welsh with the same brush. If someone wishes to tell me I’m wrong then please do so.

As a Welsh speaker and as a specialist in Latin American politics and history who's also fluent in Spanish, this article is full of informational errors and lacks detail. To begin with, the idea of germ warfare didn't arrived in Latin America in the 19th century - it arrived way before then when the Spanish and Portuguese arrived in 1492. We can't really connect this with the Welsh community unless we have total proof and evidence. Missionaries and indoctrination began in the 15th too. You cannot compare the genocides that took place under the Chilean governments and the Argentinian governments of the 19th century without referring to the names of the presidents from those days and referring to specific instances of genocides such as the Conquista del Desierto that took place between 1878-1885. Which genocides are you specifically referring to? The genocides and the política de blancamiento throughout Latin America varied from country to country. Also, we cannot paint the Welsh as "the bad people" unless you analyse what the Tehuelches community of today has to say. Did you know that Lewis Jones went to Buenos Aires to call upon the President, Julio Argentino Roca, to stop his política de blancamiento and genocide against the Tehuelches. Have you spoken with people from the Tehuelche community? Have you referred to sourced created by them? Also, Michael D. Jones was never on the Mimosa - he never migrated and lived in Patagonia. I don't see with your article how you can connect the Welsh community of Patagonia with Pinochet and the genocidal agendas other Chilean and Argentine leaders. The article lacks detail and information as it includes many false statements that need to be fact-checked.

I think our man David should check the basic facts before he even attempts to make such idiotic assertions. The idea that Michael D Jones arrived on the Mimosa..... Well, even the school children in Chubut would laugh to read that. There's no Twpsyn like a Twpsyn with an agenda.

You have even colonized Armorica (Brittany) you naughty Welsh people.

I think that David Llewellyn does a good thing in opening a debat on whether the Welsh colony has or not, contributed to annihilate the natives in Patagonia. That's a rather healthy attitude morally. I heard, for instance, that a native had been killed by a Welsh settler, (I don't know what would have been the reason however). But maybe, David Llewellyn has brought some conclusions a bit too quickly, this is a tricky matter which should be left to the historians, in my opinion.

Re-rewriting History and rewriting it again, what a mess. This is the problem with a lensed-approach to the social science, philosophy and especially History; you blind yourself to so much baseline reality that you're effectively lying. Further, in publishing such work, it effectively coerces others (who are unaware or unable to research themselves) to do the same. Unethical and inaccurate.

Anyone agreeing with this is beyond a lunatic. The territory that the Welsh settled on was completely deserted and was given to the settlers by the Argentinian government.

These things could be said about any group of people who migrated to 'the New World', Australia, New Zealand etc. The same could be said for example of all the immigrants and their descendants living in New York City, why single out the Welsh of Patagonia? I would also say that having a positive attitude about the history of Welsh people in Patagonia doesn't mean that one thinks Wales is "greatest nation on Earth." Wales is a tiny nation so no one could possibly think is it the greatest nation on Earth, that is a ridiculous idea, but we are no worse than any other

Personally, as part of my own ongoing efforts in the decolonisation of what little of our own lands we have left, I cannot support what a few of our ancestors did or became a part of, whether knowingly or not in Patagonia. The consequences of their colonisation of another people’s land is the legacy remaining today. The indigenous people are so few in number and do not appear to be really considered at all, outside of the occasional government census’. There is no justification what so ever, in what they did. Just because the English were doing it to Cymru, did not give them the excuse, reason or the right at all, to emigrate and repeat the same on others. In doing so they were no better than their English oppressors. In reality we should celebrate those that stayed and fought. In my own humble efforts in decolonising what is left of our own ancestral lands, including my mind, body and soul from hereditary conditioning and alien enslavement, I do support the Tehuelche people one day being able to rightfully reclaim their ancestral lands and a peaceful transition to that end!