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Opinion

Let’s See

By Mark Mansfield
Jeremy Corbyn (second left) and Zarah Sultana, MP for Coventry South (second right) on the picket line outside London Euston train station. Photo Stefan Rousseau/PA Wire

Ben Wildsmith

News that Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana plan to lead a left-wing party into the next election sets up an interesting dynamic. Whilst Labour is used to concerted pressure from Plaid Cymru here and the SNP in Scotland, the Greens pose a less immediate threat in England, where radicalism has been allowed to bleed away to the right.

Long-rumoured, confirmation that a new party is being formed comes as Labour faces an existential crisis of identity. Last-week’s U-turn on benefits revealed the strange and unenviable territory from which the party is trying to govern.

As Rachel Reeves grizzled behind him, Keir Starmer ploughed on obliviously at the despatch box. The following day’s spin exhorted us all to acknowledge the Chancellor’s ‘human side’, as if breaking down in public is somehow a signifier of decency.

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Bitterly disappointing

For English voters who care about this sort of thing, Labour’s first year has been bitterly disappointing.

On every issue of moral substance, it seems that the front bench is instinctively out of step with the people who voted for it. From Palestine to benefits, the government has had to be dragged towards the light by its backbenchers and, increasingly, an incensed majority of public opinion.

This would be more comprehendible if the party showed any sign of winning over people it has lost to Reform UK. The truth is that flag-shagging faux-patriotism and authoritarian disregard for human rights has to be delivered by someone with a track record of believing in that sort of thing. Starmer, Nandy, Cooper et al are transparently prostituting their former beliefs for votes. Whether you’re a deport-them-all racist or an execute-the-royals anarchist you can clock a fake when you see one.

It's worse than that, though. Even the great mass of broadly decent folk who can’t stand politics and would rather not discuss it have turned. As much as this cabinet isn’t full of real socialists, or real patriots, it’s startlingly short of capable centrists too. Its presentation is poor, its policies fall apart, and its personalities are loathsomely self-obsessed careerist hacks with no vision or care for your life.

And there’s potentially four more years of this.

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Terminal toxicity

Plaid Cymru’s recent messaging indicates that it’s well-aware that Labour has tipped into terminal toxicity. On social media, criticism of the party is most often concerned with its closeness to Labour. If the UK party continues on its present path, then distance from it will be politically fruitful for Plaid long after the Senedd election.

The UK, all of it, is in crisis. Nobody is happy with life here, nor the prospects we are being offered for the future. If radicalism is once-again to be politically represented in England, then Plaid Cymru should be in dialogue with its representatives.

A respectable progressive force in England must reject the centralising intransigence that has been the hallmark of Starmer’s Labour. Instead, Plaid Cymru and the SNP should insist on input into how such a party sees the future of the UK. Recognition of our right to self-determination, and meaningful devolution of powers are a reasonable price for confidence and supply discussions that could, potentially, include individual Labour representatives.

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Tumult

The tumult is only going to intensify in the short term. As it overtakes a dull political class in Westminster, all sorts of benefits might squirt out of the back of the scrum for Cymru, Scotland, the environment, and anything else around which people cohere.

A new progressive party in England is a good thing. It’s something we can do business with, something that can be encouraged to speak our name in rooms where cheques are signed.

Eventually, it’s something with which we might negotiate a harmonious union. Let’s see.

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71 comments

Fi yn unig

What did Starmer mean by ‘nations and regions’? This seems to have been slung on the back burner or into the trash can. He said ‘nations’ plural which means he recognises the ‘nations’. I take that to mean Cymru, Yr Alban (Scotland), Cernyw I hope (Cornwall) but the ‘regions’ refer to England. I recognise England as a nation but does he? This was being trumpeted loudly before he dug his own government into far right shadowing and he had better get back to what I have believed that it is - hope - that he will not leave the Welsh and Scottish elections to play out to a disaster before he acts otherwise his s**tshow won’t even reach its’ second anniversary and his legacy will be the handing over in pathetic capitulation to the life destroying far right setting in stone that line ‘Labour have abandoned us’.

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Mawkernewek

"Nations and regions" is normally a phrase you hear from the BBC, and what they really mean by it is that the non-England nations, are tacitly considered to be regions, even if they are stated as nations.

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Badger

The best thing that could happen to Starmer is 50 Labour MPs jump ship to the Corbyn Party and let him run a centre left government in peace.

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J Jones

But like the electorate, that 10% believe they and their beliefs are more important than democracy, which only a year ago elected reasonably central politics that tries to be fair to everyone.

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Amir

How will they change democracy?

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David

So creating another political party is bad for democracy? Please explain that to those of us whose understanding is clearly not on a par with yours.

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Fi yn unig

That’s very funny but seriously, their party name must not include the word ‘Labour’ or it is doomed.

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J Jones

Seriously, I didn't vote Labour because I knew they'd win but also knew this sabotage purge would inevitably come from the Loony Left. 'Labour' still has 400+ MPs from the general election a year ago. As mentioned on here, flushing away about 50 loony left will be good for them and still leave a healthy majority for the next 4 years. Compare this to Corbyn handing power to the Tories for a decade but now getting excited about his Fruit and Nut Party scraping around for a few defectors until they all disappear at the next general election.

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Amir

Are they prepared to impose a 2% wealth tax?

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Fi yn unig

Are they going to get back the stolen wealth for the people from the last 45 years of the Thatcher shareholder tyranny? Well, see what happened to Jeremy Corbyn in 2019 as the crooks crapped their nappies at the prospect. This time, it needs to be for real,

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Johnny

The Labour Party under Starmer is more nasty Right than Reform.

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Rob

I'm not defending Starmer but he isn't trying to privatise the NHS, slash workers' rights or withdraw the UK from the European Convention on Human Rights.

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Johnny

If this new party has been criticized by Neil Kinnock then it must be a great thing. Kinnock as his title may not suggest wanted to abolish the House of Lords and was a Brexiteer before being handsomely rewarded as a Eu commissioner. Kinnock couldn't even become PM on the backdrop of The last days of Margaret Thatchers unpopularity. Of course Corbyn never became PM but when he was leader received more votes than Tony Blair ever did in his 3 terms. Corbyn also manage to recruit a record 600,000 New Members to the Labour Party. Of course what put paid to Corbyn was interference from the Israeli Embassy in London. I wish this Party all the best. I know it could split the Labour vote and allow Reform in Westminster but anything that finishes off Starmer from the Labour Party I will support.

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Badger

I'm not sure why you think it'll help Reform? On current polling no party will win so the next government will have to be a coalition and even with the remnants of the Cons they won't get over the line. Unless you're hinting that the Corbyn Party would jump into bed with Reform to get into government. Now that would shake things up.

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David Richards

According to reports the future of this new initiative is far from certain? with people close to Jeremy Corbyn apparently unhappy with the haste of Zarah Sultanas statement. But should any new party emerge from this it will be interesting to see what position it takes on Wales and Scotland? Will it support the right of those two nations to hold referendums on independence? Will it support the devolution of the crown estates to Wales? Will it support the devolution of crime and policing to wales? Will it support the devolution of all energy matters to Wales? Will it continue the UK govts arrogant policy of overriding laws made by the scottish parliament by taking them to the UK supreme court and blocking them there? If it doesn't support these things (and i strongly suspect it wont) then im afraid that far from being anything 'new' this will just be the same old centralised brit left which has always had a blind spot when it comes to the nations of Wales and Scotland.

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John Ellis

The left has tended to be instinctively unionist.

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Theoriginalmark

Corbyn was in favour of a federal type set up including parts of England

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John Ellis

From what I've heard on the news today, Mr Corbyn's response suggests that this is unlikely to happen.

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Amir

I don't understand the "ridiculous piece of dried fruit" analogy. Is this some form of racial slur?

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Adrian

Much as you'd like it to be a racial slur Amir, it's actually wordplay on 'Sultana' and also the fact that she really is a ridiculous politician.

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Pete

Straight bat. Well played.

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hdavies15

Fruit and nut party ?

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In reply to hdavies15

Adrian

Jezbollah?

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In reply to Adrian

Amir

Just shocked I got a response and 3 of them. Nothing like a bit of baseball and part of 5 a day in the morning. The final beaut was the play on words with "combined forces of Allah". Amazing.

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In reply to Amir

Adrian

Happy to help. Have a great day!

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hdavies15

Apologies. I had made my brief response above and had not got this far down the page !

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Amir

That got deleted for some reason, so you have to start again.

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Mab Meirion

Did I miss something ... A trad jazz band with Zara Sultana on vocals...

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Steve D.

Labour has drifted to the right since the formation of 'New Labour'. Their policies now are little different to the Tories. Perhaps it is time for another left wing party. Corbyn is quite radical but got a lot of support in the 2017 GE, many would probably vote for any new party formed. Though in Cymru we already have a more left wing party in Plaid and a party that will put Cymru first too.

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Rob

Agreed. My only fear is this could split the left-wing vote and gift the country to Farage. Whoever wins the election could easily get a majority with less than 30% of the vote. Anyone still prepared to defend first past the post seriously needs to re-evaluate their democratic credentials.

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Badger

If this turns into a serious new party it could help Starmer justify changing the voting system without looking like it's just to try and stitch up Reform.

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Pete

There is that...

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Pete

Agree. And Labour and PC don't seem to be coming up with positive visions to stop it.

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Badger

Indeed, Corbyn gave us Boris and Brexit.

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Tucker

Nope Starmer was shadow brexit secretary and forced JC to adopt the second referendum policy which sank Labours 2019 chances.

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Badger

Er, back up a bit. Corbyn gifted the 2019 election to Johnson because many moderate centrists backed Johnson against their better judgement just because he wasn't Corbyn. And Labour under Corbyn didn't back remain in 2016. That was enough to swing it for Leave. Neither of these points are Starmer's doing unless you're claiming Corbyn was Starmer's puppet?

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In reply to Badger

Tucker

A simple Internet search would show you who was Shadow Secretary at the time. And who was the one who campaigned for a second referendum for it to be part of the Labour manifesto. But keep believing what Nu New Labour 0.2 tell you and that Corbyn was responsible for everything that went wrong with Labour in 2019.

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David

Er, I think the right-wing press might have had something to do with that, as well as the stupidity of a large part of the electorate.

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Barry

If you mean Corbyn would've won without the right-wing press that's like saying your football team would've won if the other side forgot to turn up. The Telegraph, Mail and Express are awful publications but they exist because a lot of people read them because they represent their views. Forgetting those people exist is why Corbyn lost.

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Badger

Nearly 13m backed him in 2017. Anyone who values democracy should support separate left-left and centre-left parties so voters not party apparatchiks can decide how left-wing a government is by the relative proportion of each party in a coalition.

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Undecided

And nearly 17m didn’t followed by an 8% drop in the Labour vote in 2019. Corbyn is yesterday’s news.

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Badger

It's for voters not me or you to decide if he's yesterday's news. His politics deserves a voice, a box on the ballot paper and an honest chance at power without piggybacking on the centre left.

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In reply to Badger

Undecided

Yes, absolutely. All shades of opinion deserve a voice. He is free to stand and may well win his seat again. But he has more chance of landing on the moon than gaining power. It’s the Tooting Liberation Front decamping to north London.

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In reply to Undecided

Badger

If say 50 Labour MPs crossed the floor and were successfully re-elected then the Corbyn Party would stand a real chance of being in a coalition with Labour in 2029.

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In reply to Badger

Undecided

That would be a betrayal of the proletariat. What’s the point of leaving Labour only to then go into coalition with them?! Anyhow, not happening - doubt they would get 5 let alone 50. Not even sure Corbyn himself has joined yet and even if I’m completely wrong, he wouldn’t last a week before the bond markets turfed him out.

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In reply to Undecided

Badger

It's not a betrayal, it's grown up politics. Better to achieve something in power than nothing as a protest party.

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In reply to Badger

J Jones

Not if you're an extremist. So totally immersed in hatred of others that they don't see as far as the next election or as wide to include anyone but themselves

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In reply to J Jones

Badger

There's certainly an element of the left-left that doesn't want to do the hard work of government and can't wait to get the Tories back in power so they can officially hate them again.

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In reply to J Jones

Tucker

Is the far left in the room with you now Jonesy?

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Amir

There have been some positive experiences as well and plenty of countries using it seem to do just fine. I don't see france, Switzerland, Canada or Norway faring badly from this tax system. It does seem the word "never " is inappropriate.

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Rheinallt morgan

France scrapped its wealth tax in 2017 after years of capital flight. Canada has no wealth tax. Norway's high wealth individuals have legged it prompting national debate about its sustainability. Switzerland's cantonal wealth taxes are more nuanced, but are offset relatively low income taxes and a very different fiscal culture. Their track records are patchy at best and that's why many governments and economists have moved away from them.

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Amir

Just need a one off 2% wealth tax for now. Countries just use them to get out of a sticky situation

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In reply to Amir

Rheinallt morgan

Doomed to failure like Brown's bottom.

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In reply to Rheinallt morgan

Amir

Let the wealthy contribute. They will be fine. They got plenty of dough.

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David

The difference is, those countries you list are not cursed by the high rates of inequality suffered by the UK. A wealth tax should not be necessary, but unless and until we get back to the relative equality of the 1970's, I see no viable alternative.

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In reply to David

David

Ps, those countries also have high rates of social security contributions, the revenue from which goes to pay for improved public services and welfare. There is therefore less need for a wealth tax to level the playing field.

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Amir

Well I suppose the money will have to come from taxing the middle class. Sort of what is happening now. Well the rich folk will be just fine.

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Amir

So short answer is you don't know.

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Adrian

It's why they only ever talk about taxing billionaires and not millionaires.

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Barry

How about taxing everyone the same and not targeting specific groups. What could be fairer than that? Subject any and all earned and unearned income to a 33% rate of income tax, abolish cgt, iht and dividend tax, and tax gifts. Align the personal allowance with the national living wage and don't claw this back from high earners.

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Theoriginalmark

But they are talking about millionaires,

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David

Probably best to ignore those who use such pathetic jibes as "loony left" and "fruit and nut party". I am sure these go down well with your mates at the 'Spoons, but here they just make the comment look ridiculous.

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Barry

The "far-left" is fair though, isn't it?

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David

Only if you are looking through a different Overton window than I am. Perhaps you think that, for example, nationalising the railways and the water industry (both Corbyn policies) is "far left". That would make the majority of the UK population raving lefties, according to your analysis. The trouble is that most people are so indoctrinated, over many years, by right-wing propaganda (on TV, radio and newspapers) that they think (or rather, feel) that basic social democracy, as practised by successful European and other states, is halfway to communism.

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In reply to David

Barry

But the Overton window has moved since the 70s. That's not to say it can't be dragged back but that must happen through a separate party that can directly make the case to voters, it was wrong to try and hijack the main party and all we got for that effort was Boris and Brexit.

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In reply to Barry

David

Corbyn didn't "hijack" the party, he was elected as leader, and it was right-wing media propaganda, portraying the social democratic polices of the Corbyn leadership as "loony left", that gave us Brexit. As for a separate party to make the case to voters, isn't that exactly what Corbyn and Sultana are doing? Incidentally, I have been neither a Labour not Corbyn supporter since Blair abandoned Clause 4 (commitment to public ownership). Although I vote Plaid Cymru, I hate the lying propaganda which passes for political discourse in the UK, even when it focusses on Corbyn; I am not a fan but he is a lot better than many of the alternatives.

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David

If Corbyn is a millionaire, it is probably because he bought a house in Islington when they were cheap, and has benefitted, through no fault of his own, from house price inflation. Many other working-class Islington residents are also "millionaires" for the same reason. Stop reading Daily Mail headlines and start thinking.

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David

Glad to see you quote Ireland as a country doing well - I would remind you, that is largely due to their being in the EU. Wales would also do well as an independent country with EU membership.

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Adam

Unfortunately, the media and the UK establishment piled so much slander on smear on Corbyn that the public fell for the lies. I doubt whether he'll be able to achieve much now that the UK lies machine has done its thing with him.

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Tucker

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2025/7/9/live-israel-bombs-gaza-refugee-camp-trump-netanyahu-meet-for-second-time

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Theoriginalmark

That's rubbish, there are no more millionaires leaving the UK now than at any other time, not sure you equate being rich with being successful, one doesn't necessarily follow the other

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Leave a reply

Replying to David Cancel

Probably best to ignore those who use such pathetic jibes as "loony left" and "fruit and nut party". I am sure these go down well with your mates at the 'Spoons, but here they just make the comment look ridiculous.

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