Iceland shows Wales what happens when you choose independence

Well yes, but my O Level geography tells me that Iceland is essentially an island many many air and sea miles from its past colonial rulers the Danes. Wales, as well as being next door, as it were, to England, is intimately integrated by population, economic and social ties. Using Iceland as an exemplar, even with Socratic references! is somewhat wishful thinking. I get the impression that the author might be happpier living in Iceland than Wales! That said, of course more 'independence' is needed but it will have to be taken and fought for as it will never be 'devolved' (willingly) from Westminster. A better example is Catalonia even though they are currently down but not out. It takes a generation or more to build sufficient resentment in a populace. You have to admire them, the Icelanders, for kicking out the big banks! We should do the same and be ready with technical and software alternatives. I applaud the author for getting off his arse and actually visiting other places - other Welsh politicians should do this even if it costs us. More trade, promotion and research missions are needed even if it is to 'educate' the jobsworthies that currently infest our political and governmental system.

Iceland had a degree of self government from 1874, it gained full sovereignty over home affairs in 1918 and full independence in 1944. The current state of affairs took considerably longer than one lifetime. More importantly, Iceland is a remote island with an economy that was never integrated with Denmark. Its situation is not remotely comparable with Wales. The key to building an independence movement in Wales is not looking at countries with little in common with us but to show people what an independent Wales would look like in practice. What would be its relationship with England and the EU? What would the border be like? What would the currency be? How would the social security system work? Only a minority will ever choose independence for the its own sake. Convincing the majority requires something more concrete.

I've been a member of the Scottish National Party for over a decade. During that time I've lived in Canada, South Korea, my native Scotland, and now Wales. I rejoice in what the SNP government has done for Scotland, especially poor people. The Westminster government and the London based, foreign owned UK Media, and especially the BBC, distort and denigrate the achievement of our Government. They also spread lies about the wealth of Scotland, claiming that we're too poor to be independent. The truth is that England is a cow, its head is in Edinburgh, and its udder is in London. I long for the independence of my natal country! Since coming to live in Wales, I see how badly done by Westminster and the British (= English) parties is Wales. We need to face the fact that the Government of the UK is an English government. with 533 MPs representing English constituencies, 40 Welsh, 59 Scottish, and 18 Northern Irish; 533 against 120, and I do mean against. The UK is governed in the interests of England. The only country in the world which has been independent for a day, and voted to accept domination by it neighbour, is Scotland. The English government lied and cheated to deprive us of our independence. This may be the year of our second referendum, and people's eyes are being opened by Brexit, which is in the interests of England only. It's time the conquered countries in the UK chose governments which would rule in the interests of their peoples, and be accountable to their peoples. That requires independence!

Rejoin the EU, or stay outside?

The Bellwether geography insight of the value of an island Nation like Iceland, that surely aided it's cause to independence , reminded me if a short poem by the late Harri Web and published in his book Poem and Pints named " Our scientists are working on it " " What Wales needs, and has always lacked most is, instead of an eastern boundary, an East coast". But there are powerful arguments made by Neil, besides a damn good football team! I just wish.

Iceland is a place where you find what you want to find. I don't recognise the iceland you visited but can see how you found what you wanted to find. Please note iceland sits on a major fault line and Wales does not. Might have something to.do with energy independence and being able to grow bananas in winter.

Look at yourself in the mirror, Clive King. Are you proud of what you see? So negative about Wales. The best I can do for you is that you and McEvoy look at the the same Iceland, the same glass. He sees it as half full but you see it as half empty. OK, lets talk about energy. Do you suppose that Icelanders were or are like primitives and that the "bananas in winter" (why so mocking?) or more genuine projects just happened, or were all started by the departing Danes who were like the British in India ie superior to the natives? Of course not. Its all a question of attitude. The following peoples have the right attitude: Scots, Irish, Manx, Channel Islanders. They held their heads up in their various ways and devised ways of making their nearly-independent countries hum. At some point you have to make a stand against Westminster and say "we'll do it our way!". Just because the English conquered us, and later the Labour Party kept us subservient for the last 100 years does not mean we can only be negative. Attitude, see. How many politicians in Wales are like Neil McEvoy, looking for a way forward, a way to break out? Hardly any. You need to back McEvoy or someone like him, Clive.

Diolch am hyn Neil McEvoy Yes foreign travel broadens the mind - lets you see how others deal with similar problems: in our and Gwlad yr Ia's (Iceland's) cases an overbearing, bullying neighbor. Yes, we absolutely need an independent Cymru. This will not however come easily. Cymru has for centuries been colonised by 'them next door'. The mindset of most inhabitants of Cymru is much the same as that of those living in England. This process is ever accelerating. Most of the people in Cymru have not just let the language go, they actively hate it - that's just one powerful negative emotion we have to face. But there are others: a lot of our people strongly identify with british values (narrow mindedness, anti-international, deep distrust of anything 'foreign' ie ''welsh'', an idealized view of britain that fails to see its manifold failings ad infinitum in my mind). To persuade our people to vote yes in an independence referendum is going to take a huge effort and a change of fundamental mindset. A job of at least a generation? There is nothing actually wrong with living in a dry and pleasant cave and some of these do exist. Whether such exist in Gwlad yr Ia is another matter - ?one warmed (gently) by a geyser or geothermal heat perhaps?

Don't quite understand the line about the tour guide not describing herself as a nationalist and "nor would I". Neil- there's no reason for that lady to describe herself as a nationalist as Iceland is an Independent country! We are only nationalists in Wales since we seek the same freedom as the Icelandres enjoy. Once we're Independent, people can choose whatever political identity they want- there will be no need to be nationalists! In the meantime, we can only be nationalists if we wish to see the emancipation of our country.Get real. Apart from that- a decent piece. If we had a nationally-minded goverment in Cardiff Bay instead of the bland and visionless managers of Welsh Labour, Iceland would be one of Europe's small, successful countries they would be desperately seeking to emulate. I've always had a soft spot for Iceland( well before they beat England in the Euros last year!)- something to do with the fantastic novel " Independent People", written by .Halldor Laxness, The novel depicts the epic struggle of the main character, Bartur Johansen of Summer Houses to attain his own financial independence against all the odds, but it's also a metaphor for the Icelanders's own struggle for their independence from the rule of Denmark. What's particularly striking about the novel is the theme that what kept the Icelanders going through their long struggle was their love their land and their language. When the next huge economic crash hits us here, as it is bound to do over the next few years, I feel Wales will also have to fall back on our land and language to survive.:

Neil McEvoy, spot on. You are a real asset to our Plaid Cymru. Well, this morning we are seeing the collapse of one of the UK's largest infrastructure management and construction companies. Does this say something? That the UK is not a financially safe haven for Wales. Most possibly a similar situation would not have happened in an independent Wales as we in Wales do not have a political climate driving such a system of outsourcing. Anyway, we would have had more secure regulation of organisations building and maintaining public infrastructure. We cannot afford not to be independent !!!!

I would suggest cross-studies be done with the teaching of Icelandic and Welsh, and if we should import teaching and cultural promotion methods to Wales. E.g., Icelandic government promotes film in Icelandic with fewer speakers than Cymraeg, producing 12 films a year.

Erthygl da iawn eto Niel. Plaid needs you back in there, and bring Dafydd El too, a broad church with a vision of a free Wales running and creating it’s own prosperity. Petroc ap Seisyllt

You know what, Wales being ruled by Denmark would give a huge pay rise to everyone in Wales and make Wales richer per capita than England. lets go Danish.

A little nation like Wales could never hope to emulate an international power like Iceland that in recent decades has taken on the might of the British Royal Navy and won. Twice. How could little Wales do what a nation of 330,000 Icelanders had achieved. That's very nearly the population of Cardiff for goodness sake!