A Plaid Cymru and Conservative coalition would help Wales move on from the 80s

Hear hear, real shame the rainbow alliance fell though in 2007. Sadly can't see this happening with Andrew RT and Leanne though (in a parallel universe Elin Jones and Nick Ramsey yes, Rhun and Paul Davies in the future possibly) Plaid would have to park any aspiration of an independence referendum though and I think that would be a pill the membership especially the young ones on twitter would struggle to swallow.

Hmm. Interesting idea but it didn't pan out that well for the Lib Dems did it! It certainly did manage to destroy them but I'm not sure it turned them into the Tories friends! "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" seems like a horrible admission of defeat to me, to be honest.

This is all quite reasonable until you start to wonder what it is the Tories have done for Wales - ever? Let's not even raise of truly grotesque spectre of John Redwood. Or even think about the fact that substantial areas of Wales are being converted into holiday parks or retirement compounds for Conservative-voting emigres from the Home Counties who can't or won't internalise the fact that they are in another country. I'm being slightly facetious, I know, and I am no more a Labour supporter than I am a Tory, and I most certainly do agree with the essential idea that ALL factions in Wales should strive towards a genuine state of Cymru. I just find it almost fantastically unlikely that the Tories can even understand the concept of a separate Wales outside the control of Westminster (remember that 'Unionist' bit - it doesn't just apply to Ireland). OK, Labour has that problem as well, but with perhaps rather less back-story baggage. Yes, by all means abandon pointless party politics and traditional voting if we can get on with the real task of establishing a functioning state. It just seems to me that trying for an alliance with a group that is almost by definition opposed to that is frankly futile.

Before Brexit I argued for a Rainbow Alliance back 10 years ago. Now in a different situation entirely - too many policy divisions that are unbridgeable.

This article really is not very helpful. It will give fodder for those (mainly Labour supporters) who have been trying to smear Plaid with being somehow not as radical as them. We saw only a couple of months ago what happens even at council level when there is the suggestion of working with the Tories (in Conwy). And quite right, too. It won't, and can't happen - at least, not for a very long time (by when hopefully the Tories will have completed their journey on the path to oblivion), for many reasons. You mention just one. Thatcher. Well, the memory of Thatcher doesn't need rekindling. Our present "government" is destroying the UK in a spectacular way, and this will take at least a generation for people to forgive. The Lib Dem experience with coalition in London should tell you what happens to anyone who gets into bed with the Tories. On a personal note, I would resign my membership of a party which went into coalition with the Tories. I say this with a reasonable degree of confidence that I am not going to have to do that. And I am sure that I am far from alone. We need to defeat the Tories, not get into bed with them.

I would love for this to happen, but how can the Welsh tories abandon unionism and how can Plaid abandon independence? The real answer is to form a new party which rejects both socialism and Westminster. Who's up for it?

I think this is another British political trap. Move on from the "battles of 80s" (which the Tories caused) we do not need coalitions, a coalition is for a political estanlishment that has failed, that is the British and we want no part of British politics!

I agree Gregory - futile indeed. I can't see any possibility of working with the current crop of Tory AMs - it would take an ideolgical earthquake to shift them from their 'Unionist' stance and Westminster priorities.

FFS, who writes this bu***t ?

Well, we must do something to get Labour out. A century is quite enough.

"It will require a certain amount of communal forgiveness. It will require effort." Quite an understatement. Shifting Labour out of the pole position it occupies is a priority but the more I reflect on the Tory "offering" there is no way that Plaid should get into bed with that lot and expect to come out later with anything other than a bad dose of political c**p. As said earlier you don't need to revisit Thatcher's era to find reasons for avoiding this lot. I voted to Leave the EU but as a stepping stone to leaving the UK. Both the Tories and Labour are primarily Unionist BritNat parties and must be confronted not cosied up to. From time to time Labour in the Bay will come up with an agreeable policy. Then vote with them - simple innit. But given the catalogue of defective performance dating back to 1999, much of it in cahoots with London based Tory led governments, Plaid could devote a lot of time to demonstrating to the public what a shower they have in government both here and in London.

Benjiman writes "I understand that this will be difficult" er impossible more like Ben! Plaid Cymru is committed to securing independence for wales while the tories are - as theresa may so recently reminded everyone when agreeing the DUP deal - the conservative and 'unionist party'. This is not a mere 'difference' it is a fundamental and irreconcilable difference. Then there's the little matter of the tories being a right of center party which among other things wants to undermine the rights of working people and erode the welfare state and plaid cymru is a left of center party that among other things seeks to protect workers rights and defend our welfare state. Ben also omits to mentions those scars inflicted on welsh communities in the 1980s he says he wants to 'heal' were caused by the brutal policies of a right wing conservative uk prime minister - the very party he thinks plaid should go into coalition with. Sorry but taking all of this into consideration it really is hard to take benjiman's post seriously - indeed i feel compelled to ask is this a wind up?

In the current political environment, I disagree. The Tories are toxic for a large part of the Welsh electorate. They will remain so until the Welsh Tories have forged a distinct identity based on a clear commitment to Welsh rather than Westminster interests. The fiasco over their failure to figure out who their leader was for the Welsh leaders' debate -- TM's placeman Alun Cairns or the Assembly group leader Andrew RT -- clearly illustrates that they have a long way to go before they can be regarded as anything other than Westminster stooges.

This has to be the most naive "political opinion" I have ever read

What Dafydd ap Gwilym said.

Cymru is poor, this is down to whoever is in Westminster. It doesn't mean a jot who the Cymreig Vote's for in any Election. Independence is Paramount - It's time to think outside their broken Box.

I strongly disagree in the current political climate. The Tories toxic for a large part of the Welsh electorate. They will remain so until they have forged a distinct identity based on an unequivocal commitment to pursuing Welsh not Westminster interests. The fiasco over their inability to figure out for the Welsh leaders' debate whether they were led by TM's placeman (Cairns) or Assembly group leader (Andrew RT) illustrates how far they have to go.

I agree with the comments that Plaid Cymru should avoid central association with the Conservative Part like the plague at this point in time. The Conservative party is undergoing a seismic civil war over Europe( as indeed are Labour), and they are going to be destroyed by the fall-out. Best keep well clear. However, there's a difference between the Conservative and Unionist Party and Conservatism as a political philosophy. I would argue that Conservatism as a philosophy can indeed help to develop Wales as a nation. There's a clue in the name- To Conserve. To create a viable Welsh future: we first need to conserve- our language and culture, our landscape, our sense of belonging, our shared past. When you also consider that classical conservatism also emphasizes personal initiative and responsibility, the importance of strong community networks( Edmund Burke's " battalion of small troupes" as a buffer between the state and the individual, and individuals' innate drive to grow and develop themselves: you can see how such a philosophy fits in surprisingly well with what Wales really needs at present. Mix that up with a strong national identity and a whiff of anarchism( encouraging people to work together, and reduce hierarchy in our society)- Conservative Anarchism is not such an oxymoron as it sounds-! we can truly create a bespoke political alignment in Wales which can truly represent his nation. So, despite the caveats, the author of this article is to be congratulated for thinking the unthinkable!

I couldn't support the Conservatives in any shape or form - what they have done and continue to do to the people who have the least say, the least power, the least money, is appalling. The abandonment of science with regard to doing something about bTB... Agree with A Gog, Westminster is still a big influence. But I do believe working together is a positive thing. Oh and on mention of voting leave as a step to Wales leaving UK from Dafis, I feel the opposite, I think the EU [despite it's faults] is a good umbrella for smaller countries.

Anyone thought that this may be a bit of mischiefmaking. All people will see from this. Even though it is not there. Is that Plaid are joining the Conservatives in a coalition. It is just one persons fancy full idea that would be better off being kept to themselves. Instead of creating something out of nothing.

awful idea - a separatist - unionist alliance? . That's not to say that there isn't room for a new non-unionist Conservative party, but it won't win more than a couple of seats - just like Plaid I suppose, but in reverse.

The author does have a point. Our main focus needs to be dislodging Labour.

"After 95 years of Labour rule, Wales is the poorest country in Western Europe." There's the rub. Some people believe that Welsh people voting Labour means that Labour have ruled Wales for all that time. They haven't. By my count, Labour only governed the UK for 22 years prior to devolution. Let’s not pretend that Wales’ economic underdevelopment sprang solely from those isolated periods, or from what has happened after devolution. Wales is poor because of a long history of British Conservatism.

And a party focussed solely on the premise of dislodging Labour is a party with no real vision of its own, simply reacting to the actions of the other.

A Plaid- Conservative coalition in Cardiff Bay would only serve to deepen the cynicism in politicians and the political process If cynicism or ideological inconsistency isn’t problematic, then a Plaid-Conservative pact at Westminster a few weeks back might have netted Wales some much needed cash. £400,000,000, if the going rate is £100,000,000 per vote

Just to be clear, the headline of your article appears to suggest that the Labour Party has had an overt role in Cymru being the porest country in Western Europe. On this basis, it would have been helpful if the article could have substantiated this premise with evidence demonstrating the Labour Party's contribution to the country's alleged current position.

#poorest

Quite simply, as Aneurin Bevan reminded us, Tories are lower than vermin. That should be enough to discourage any decent thinking person from considering such an unholy alliance. We should not be duped into thinking that our enemy's enemy is our friend. Welsh Labour are indeed a liability, but the reason they are still so powerful in Wales is because Plaid, and the nationalist cause in general hasn't convinced a majority that they can do a better job. That they could hardly do a worse job is neither here nor there, Labour is the devil they know. And it's not as if Plaid doesn't have enough Tories in their midst anyway.

For me (and I believe for many others in Wales), the objection to the Tories is not tribal or ideological. It is the fact that they are so wedded to centralised Westminster control that they are unable to acknowledge the distinct interests and identity of Wales, nor are they committed to putting the interests of Welsh communities and the Welsh nation first. In principle, I believe in broad-church consensus politics and pragmatic collaboration. But the Tories will remain beyond the pale until they can demonstrate that they are capable of putting Wales first.

Is the point being missed here? The Rainbow coalition included the Liberal Democrats, not UKIP. The world has changed since then but a Plaid-Cons coalition would need Liberal Democrats, or it would not be possible.

All Unionist parties are the same, they support London Government of Wales and offer nothing to the people of Wales. Plaid Cymru needs to be campaigning for independence, taking support from a broad spectrum of public opinion. Indeed we should be doing what he SNP has done.

As a YES CYMRU member, I fully expect that the movement will be fully representative of Wales's political opinion right across the spectrum from left to centre to right. Having such an alignment in not "bonkers" at all- it is the only way to move ahead to present Independence as a credible and viable option to the people of Wales, over and above the old party tribalism which is such a turn off for so many people today. YES CYMRU should propose a set of common-sense ideas that can gain traction in all parts of our country, whatever one's personal political affiliations E.G: -A decentralized Wales, where powers are shared evenly across the country, rather than Cardiff dominating everything - The development of a sensible, small-scale capitalism which can help individuals develop their ideas and help Wales prosper - An emphasis on community development and co-operatives - A Citizen's Income for all, contingent upon certain hours of work in one's community - The development of an internal and sustainable Welsh economy - Establishment of a "Come Back to Wales" Agency to persuade Welsh emigrants to return -A digital democracy to encourage mass public participation in our new democracy - An All Wales plan to sustain and develop our national language - Make full use of Wales natural resources in water, wind and wave power. EVERYONE of us could surely sign up to such ideas! -

I am with you, Dafis. Don't want the political agenda in Wales set in Islington or Westminster

Coalitions haven't hurt Germany much as far as the economy is concerned. Most of the post WW2 governments have been coalitions of some sort, either SPD (=labour) with the liberals, or the CDU/CSU (=conservatives) with the liberals. Sometimes even SPD and CDU. I do not think this would work for Wales. However, Benjiman does identify a gap in the market: a right of centre Welsh party. I think what Wales needs is proper Welsh brand of conservatism, not of the Westminster type. The current conservatives cuold be an effective opposition, but are held back by the UK party. Plaid are simply treading water and going nowhere. Spinning 1 additional seat in the general election as a 25% gain is factually correct practically ineffective. Trying to be nice to everyone simply won't work. The problem is, we have too few politicians of high calibre, most tend to go with the flow. Leaders who aren't afraid of breaking a few eggs and treading on toes. We have seen how the press in Scotland whipped up the nonsense before the referendum on independence. The SPD weathered it well. We have different issues, but need people such as Salmond and Sturgeon. Price and McEvoy maybe? Gareth Jones is also a man of principles, not afraid to go against party policy. To gain any foothold though, it will be necessary to break the mindset of the Daily Mail readers, the traditional "my grandparetns voted labour" and the permanent social benefit recipients, who will most certainly not vote for any party who threatens to reduce their income. Following the high calibre politicians, we need an effective press. Proper journalists who actually question what the government in Cardiff are doing and not just reporting on "the best 10 things to do within an hours drive of Swansea on bank holiday weekend".