20:20 vision: The instability and squandered opportunities of the first twenty years of devolution

He's hit the nail on the head.

What were we voting for in 1997? I was voting for a step on the road to Independence. Twenty years on we have an overblown County Council which has given us free bus passes and free prescriptions which for a man of my hair style and kidneys I'm not complaining about but I don't understand how at the last Assembly Elections 7 UKIP members were voted in and then at least three AMs were allowed to become Independent or align themselves with other parties. It feels that the Senedd/Assembly/Welsh Government is just a reflection of wider British Politics which doesn't work and has never worked. Bah Humbug!

On the 20th anniversary of the poll that gave Wales devolution many will be reflecting. The survey from Cardiff University Wales Governance Centre published in the Western Mail today makes for interesting reading. Professor Roger Scully is quoted as saying: “This latest data strongly confirms the picture established in previous research: that devolution is the settled will of the Welsh people. But what we have been able to reveal is that we appear to have reached this point despite people being markedly unimpressed with the actual policy achievements of the last 20 years of devolved government”. The verdict of 65% of people surveyed was it had made no difference to their living standards. Labour were elected to power in Cardiff Bay in 1999 and have succeeded in being re-elected in a further 4 elections and the latest polls still show them riding high despite the electorate apparently being unimpressed by their achievements in government. What is the explanation for that? The survey also reveals little appetite for either abolishing the Welsh Assembly -17%, or Independence -6% Alun Cairns comments today are interesting. What might be the support for a reboot of devolution “Devo 2.0”- Directly elected Mayors for the city regions and Arfor, perhaps? There may be some, especially in the Conservative Party, who might see that as the only way of breaking the hold of the Labour Party on Wales

Having no wealth-creating powers is the real crime here We are one of the oldest run colonies in the entire world - a periphery to the main event - not the core of our own destiny..........most other colonies gained self rule - many were not even colonised very long Singapore - once an inhabited swamp gained self rule in the 1960s - a time when many Welsh were trying desperately to kill off their culture and identity and replace it with materialism and consumerism fed to them on an unattainable silver plate from London We need a radical party to offer something new

Sad to say but in my opinion the whole devolution and Welsh Language industry has been a gravy train from start to finish. The Kinnocks are prime examples of a political family who have done well milking their Welshness. However Dafydd Iwan must be at the top of the tree. One of the key founders of the Welsh language movement. Founder of Sain Records. When I worked for BBC Radio Wales in the 70's and 80's just about every Welsh language record we played was on tne Sain label. Radio Cymru had no choice about labels as all Welsh language music was on that label which meant that a fortune was paid bynthe BBC to Sain in royalties. S4C has been another golden goose for the Cardiff Taffia.

When I was pounding the streets for the Yes campaign in 1997, it was clear to me that the inevitable outcome in the short term would be complete Labour dominance of the Welsh political scene and, as a result of that, accelerated social and economic decline relative to the rest of the UK. Such has turned out to be the case. In that knowledge, I nevertheless supported Yes because this seems to be a necessary phase to go through - I've always had faith that eventually, we'd get through it and some new party would emerge as a serious alternative to lead the country in a healthier direction: right-of-centre, pro-business, and yet without all the baggage that the Conservative party has. I'd even thought that Plaid Cymru might be that party, if it had carried on in the direction that Dafydd Wigley was leading it. Sadly, twenty years on Plaid Cymru is a complete failure, Labour are as entrenched as ever and apart from Jacothenorth's blog there are few people pointing out how much better things could be if people just woke up. After Home Rule in the 1920s, it took the Republic of Ireland nearly 60 years, until the 1980s, to emerge from under the long shadow of Westminster rule and make something of itself. I'm still clinging onto the hope that it won't take Wales that long, but there is little to base that hope on so far. In the meantime, UKIP still has my support for want of any better alternative.

Eos - I was impressed with your post until the last sentence. If you think UKIP is the answer you must be desperate

Dafydd iwan has hardly creamed off the fat of the land by the BBC playing his records! And you equate him with the Kinnocks ' familial gravy train- hysterical

All summed up here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-41304032/devolution-never-heard-of-it

The disappointments of devolution over the past 20 years can be laid fairly and squarely at Welsh Labour's door. Let's not forget that devolution was engineered in effect by Tony Blair to ensure that Wales could remain a Labour fiefdom- job done in that respect. Welsh Labour have always treated the Assembly as merely a pawn in the wider game, i.e gaining or retaining power at Westminster. That remains their holy grail. With such a mentality, is it any wonder that devolution has been so uninspiring, unimaginative and underwhelming in all respects? It's no coincidence that the Assembly resembles a glorified county council/bizarre swimming pool edifice in the Bay...... The three First Ministers have just been fleshly embodiments of that underlying principle, Alun Michael was a New Labour stooge. Rhodri Morgan, for all his admirable intellect and genuine people skills, was wedded to an idea of Wales excelling in sports as a way of expressing a tame form of nationhood, as revealed in his statement that his greatest achievement as First Minister was to attract the Ryder Cup to Wales. Carwyn Jones in turn is neutered by the fact that he has to negotiate between the more pro-Wales element in his party and the others, such as the odious Stephen Kinnocj still sucking at Westminster's teat. Isn't the word itself " Devolution" an immediate turn-off in itself? And further witness to Labour's original plan? The BBC Wales interviews on the streets of Cardiff asking people about Devolution spoke volumes about how the concept has just failed to engage with the people of Wales in reality. OK- there have been some positive steps. The Free Prescriptions still make a lot of sense in a country which is in such bad ill-health because of it's economic and social decline for almost a hundred years. The 2011 Referendum on further powers was also an important step in Wales's development. That's about it for me. Wales has to have a complete re-boot. The only hope I see is in the emergence of Yes Cymru- the non-partisan social movement now engaging in an enthusiastic and energetic campaign for Independence. As Adam Price himself said recently: "No single party will liberate a nation....nations are liberated by movements". There was a palpable sense of new energy and creativity on display in the Annibynwyl, held in the capital of Welsh-speaking Wales, Caernarfon on Owain Glyndwr Day on Saturday. The sister Indyfest event held in Cardiff on the same day displayed the same vibrancy and confidence. There are new YES Cymru group springing up all over Wales: Yes Llanelli, Yes Dinefwr, and Yes Rhyl are all due to launch over the next couple of weeks. Independence is such a powerful word. Much more powerful than its Welsh equivalent,Annibyniaeth in truth. There is power in words. Because words matter. Because words can transform lives on an individual, community and national level. And we all know that Wales is a nation that reveres words and the use of word both in Welsh and English. I'm not so naive as to believe that Independence in itself will transform Wales over night. But the very use of the word can galvanise the people of Wales to believe in a better future for themselves and this nation of ours.

Well Done Cymru Rydd! That reply alone deserves the right and ability to share it!

I must say Mike Flynn's increasingly demented view of the Welsh language being the cause of all our ills makes him fitter to comment on BBC Wales's Have Your Say or the Daily Mail than on this site. but he appears also to be historically and politically illiterate, as well as off-topic: Mike: Dafydd Iwan ran a production company and a studio, as well as wrote and performed his songs. It's normal for artists and record companies to get money from their music being played (yes Mike, hate to break it to you: it happens in England too), and as this was happening before devolution an dhas nothing to do with devolution, the subject of this post. Moreover Dafydd Iwan doesn't live in in Cardiff and has never been an AM (etc etc), so your point is essentially: 'Dafydd Iwan is a sign of devolution being bad because twenty years before devolution he made money from music on Radio Cymru'. Your primary school mind appears unable to make coherent links between individual segments of information: Eg: The Kinnocks were anti-Welsh Welsh and anti-devolution, and still are, so in fact they're an exact example of the opposite of what you're saying. Which in turn means your points are totally incoherent, and you're clearly a bitter single-issue bore. If indeed you worked at Radio Wales in the 70s and 80s, then I'd say one of the big improvements in the last decades, political and cultural, is that you no longer do.

Appalled by the timidity of all political parties to tackle the problem of many thousands of elderly English retirees draining the Welsh economy.When they settle here , their pensions and health care are paid for by Welsh funding. Money is being diverted from other devolved responsibilities e,g. education to cover this.

Cornwall as well, Mike Flynn. However, Wales is always mentioned in "the lowest " league. The drain on our economy by elderly,English immigrants is never equated with this.

Mike - so what if they suffer the same? I mean, really, so what? Since when has other people having the same problem been an argument for not trying to resolve the problem? Mike's Flynnosophy might be summed up thus: 'This is a problem, but other people have it to, so, er... let's ignore it'. GJ's point is that Wales, like the other places you mention, might want to do something about it. Do you have anything coherent to say, Mike?

I am saying that Wales should have fixed all of these problems over the last 20 years. Retirees from England and elsewhere are not responsible for the poor education results. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38208738 Scores of Welsh students in science, reading and maths were below the average of 72 countries and economies taking part in a major study of educational performance. Welsh students also did worse than their counterparts in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The Pisa tests are taken by 15-year-olds every three years. This is the fourth time Wales has done worse than the other UK nations. The latest results show: In maths, Wales scored 478, below England and Northern Ireland which both scored 493 and Scotland which scored 491 In reading, Wales once again came last in the UK with 477, England scored 500, Northern Ireland 497 and Scotland 493. In science, Wales scored 485, England scored 512, Northern Ireland 500 and Scotland 497. First Minister Carwyn Jones admitted in a heated session of the assembly on Tuesday that the results make for "uncomfortable reading".

Mike Flynn,Professor Gerry Holtham(supported by The Hodge Foundation)"The biggest single mistake in Welsh Government policy has been to bleed education spending( on schools) in favour of health"Wales lagged £604 per pupil behind England.

Ah OK Mike you're now making sense: there's no direct correlation between crap results and massive influxes of old English retirees into areas where they don't assimilate , learn the language or even recognise the cultural distinctness of the place, that's true. Your 'and elsewhere' is a nice touch. Where do you mean exactly? PISA results aren't that useful, tbh. GCSE and A level results are more useful, since PISA results aren't used to judge people, so much as places and systems. No-one looks at someone's country's PISA result and says: 'I'm not giving them a job because they're from XYZ country with low PISA results'. They do look at GCSE and A levels. This PISA schtick is irrelevant to students daily lives, jobs and working futures. PISA results is what people who don't know about education and haven't been near a school invoke when they're stuck. This isn't to say that Wales's education is great – it's not, but in case you don't know this , it's the Labour party that's been in charge for 20 years. I don't blame the Westminster system for food banks, I blame the tories. Why aren't the same levels of scrutiny applied to Devolution? Because the anti-Welsh lobby are an irrational, underinformed, bigoted bunch of pointy-heads who get a free pass form our dismal media.

That is just an excuse to blame someone else. Wales has a terrible record for health as well and it is certainly not retirees causing the problems. "In the most deprived areas of Wales 28.4% of children are either overweight or obese compared with 20.9% in the least deprived." Smoking is another major problem. Both of the above cannot be tackled by throwing money at them. They are social issues found elsewhere especially in the north of England. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/wales-failing-tackle-health-gap-12158282 The report above makes interesting reading. Every year in Wales there are: 18 million primary care contacts 400,000 emergency admissions Around 500,000 ambulance calls On average, every person in Wales is issued 26 prescriptions. He said the greater amount of prescribed medication in more deprived areas is a concern. Latest figures showed that the number of medicines prescribed per head of population in Wales increased by a quarter between 2005 and 2014. And the chance of receiving 10 or more medicines more than doubles from the least to most deprived populations. Dr Atherton said “poly-pharmacy” – the prescription of several drugs for one individual– can lead to avoidable harm. The report added: “Because it can cause harm, poly-pharmacy might at least limit our ability to reduce the social gradient, if it does not actually increase it, particularly if medicines are not regularly reviewed.”

There are none so blind than those who do not wish to see. The number of Social Housing units per 100,000 people is almost identical in Wales to that in England. The 2011 Figures for Wales (ONS) gives 225,559 Social Housing units of which 46,848 on a population basis are used for housing 112,436 English immigrants in Social Housing. With Social Cleansing in England, where poor, sick, and vulnerable residents are forced to leave, the evidence available is that 48% have a health condition that affects their housing needs and over 89% have worsening mental health when they arrive in Wales. https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2016/dec/02/human-cost-benefits-cap-tenants-shunted-england-councils?CMP=share_btn_link It is also evident that of these immigrants there can be 67% unemployment of the working age group. With 89% having psychological difficulties it is not surprising that so few would be working. ‪‪http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dumping-grounds-for-the-poor-high-levels-of-unemployment-drug-addiction-and-teenage-pregnancy-leave-8746879.html

Many English immigrants already have existing health and social problems.It would be beneficial to deal with our own problems with our own funding.

Agreed Gillian but how do you convince the overweight smokers and drinkers to give up their Sky TV lifestyle for some brisk walks? A drive through any council estate in the UK illustrates Murdoch's biggest clients. Wall to wall Sky dishes adorn old industrial terraced houses while the occupants binge on junk food. Many have never worked in their life. Obesity is self inflicted and not the result of poverty. As for "English immigrants" health problems what about other nationalities?

We live in a multi cultural UK so to use the blanket term English in addressing any migration in to Wales is racist. There appears to be a general attitude on this board to blame everything on the "English" instead of using the word British.

Mike the English referred to are self defined as such in the 2011 census, not British. Are they racialist for not calling themselves British. All the English people I know are happy to call themselves such. Incidentally the 2011 census shows little immigration into Wales that is not English. We've heard all this racialist claptrap before from people when they can't have a rational debate. We need to say things as they are and call things what they are. English Labour and English Tories are together in wanting control on immigration. Well let's have a good look at immigration into Wales.

There's nothing racist whatsoever about pointing out that the vast, vast majority of economically inactive people moving here are English. Defined as such, by themselves and by the census. Immigration into Wales that is not English immigration is nugatory. So when we say that health spending has been prioritised over education (you're the one with the beef about Welsh education), there is nothing racist about pointing our why. 30 per cent of the population of Wales is English. Put 3/4 of a million French people in Kent and you'll see an analogous effect. The Welsh are too hospitable for their own good. The English spend all their time complaining about the tiny numbers of usually fit, healthy and working foreigners who come to England.

You appear to blame Welsh health problems on English retirees while ignoring the facts. According to Public Health Network Cymru the proportion of overweight or obese adults in Wales has remained at 57% since 2008. This includes 22% of adults classed as obese with levels of obesity higher across all ages in the more deprived areas (Welsh Health Survey 2013). The following story appeared in Wales online four years ago. Are you suggesting the majority mentioned below are English migrants while the locals are fit and healthy? http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-communities-more-60-overweight-2493562 According to a wide-ranging health study, Merthyr Tydfil is Wales’ fattest town with 68% of adult men and 59% of adult women tipping the scales at more than they should. Meanwhile, a whopping 28% of Merthyr’s adult population is clinically obese – classed as having a Body Mass Index (BMI) of 30 or greater – compared to the Wales-wide average of 22%. Elsewhere more than 60% of people in Carmarthenshire, Neath Port Talbot, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Caerphilly, Blaenau Gwent, Torfaen and Newport are also classed as overweight. The obesity epidemic is said to make Wales the fattest nation in the UK and put us just behind world leader the US.

Or to put it another way Royston you are not prepared to accept facts. You must be Jac o' the North. Trailerboy who posts on here recently added this to your blog..... "Funny this one. I’ve been commenting on a Guradian thread as “wiliwonka” on an article by Huw Edwards: Comments such as these crop up: SwanseaPeacefulguy 9h ago In reality, the idea that Wales is a country of closely related communities bound by a common culture is a myth. I was born and raised in Swansea and feel a far greater affinity with Bristol than I do with, say, Rhyl. In fact, I would go as far as to say that while many people in Swansea and Cardiff could easily negotiate the streets of Clifton and the Broadmead and may have friends across the Seven Bridge, they would struggle to locate Bangor or Wrexham on a map. I would suggest that people in north Wales would likewise feel a greater affinity with neighbouring English cities, such as Liverpool or Manchester, than they do with Swansea or Cardiff. The culture of the former coal-mining Welsh Valleys is again totally different from Welsh speaking rural Wales and the relatively cosmopolitan cities of the south Wales coast. While there are definitely factors that identify Wales as being a distinct country, separate from England, they are not as strong as the nationalists might like us to believe, and I would contend that outside of sport (where there is a passionate and very vocal support of any Welsh national team) there is little to bind the regions." The above nicely sums up Wales.