Opinion
For the price of a cup of coffee a month you can help us create an independent, not-for-profit, national news service for the people of Wales, by the people of Wales.
Deallt bod rhai Dysgwyr/ Dechreuwyr yn gorfod troi'r i'r saesneg weithiau...ond bod y dylerswydd arnoch fel person Iaith-Cyntaf i'w gynorthwyo trwy barhau yn Gymraeg....peidiwch â'u dilyn trwy troi i'r saesneg!
ReplyBeth dych chi'n meddwl am y sefyllfa y gymraeg ym Mlaenau Ffestiniog heddiw?
ReplyMae yn baradwys imi i fod yn medru cerdded i mewn i unrhyw siop ym Mlaenau Ffestiniog a dechrau cyfrarthrebu yn Gymraeg... ond wrth gŵrs deallaf bod gostyngiad yn y rhifau..rhaid gwneud popeth i atal dirywiad bellach.. Ysgol y Moelwyn, Ysgol Manod ac Ysgol Maenofferen efo Athrawon a Llwyodraethwyr penigamp.. a gwersi /cyfleuon i 'r Dysgwyr (sy'n oedolion) dysgu ac ymafer. Gwersi : Llyrgell Blaenau Ffestiniog pob prynhawn Dydd Mercher. Grŵpïau Sgyrsïo : Canolfan Goffa Ffestiniog pob Dydd Iau. A Cell B pob bore Sadwrn. ...ac Siop Llyfrau (Siop yr Hen Bost) bendigedig ar y Stryd Fawr.
ReplyMae hyn wedi digwydd i fi sawl waith dros y blynyddoedd. Cytunaf yn llwyr y dylai'r siaradwr iaith gyntaf cynorthwyo yn Gymraaeg
ReplyIe dwi wedi ymwneud efo llawer o ddysgwyr dros y blynyddoedd...nifer ohonynt yn 'cwyno' bod pobl iaith cyntaf yn troi dim ond i'r saesneg ar ôl iddynt cael dipyn o anhwylister a gorfod defnyddio tipyn o saesneg...os gwelwch yn dda ..cynorrthwyo ni trwy parhau i siarad yn Gymraeg. Roedd fy merch yn Brif-ferch Ysgol John Bright ym 20015 ac awgrymodd hithau y dylai pob athro dechrau pob sgŵrs yn Gymraeg ...yn aml iawn mae Dysgwyr yn deall ond jyst ddim yn clywed y geirfa'n ddigon aml (pan maen't yn dod o deulu di-Gymraeg neu'n byw mewn ardal di-Gymraeg) i ddatblygu eu sgilïau iaith.
ReplyByddwn i'n ychwanegu gemau cyfrifiadurol i'r rhestrau. Bydd lot fawr yn anghytuno am gael biliau ayyb yn Gymraeg. Mae hyn yn waith i rywun. Oes tystiolaeth gyda thi sy'n dweud bod gwella'r amgylchedd ieithyddol yn hollol amherthnasol i werthfawrogiad o'r iaith, yn enwedig ymhlith plant?
ReplySome really interesting and good points there! I also think Welsh music helps encourage the use of Welsh, music in Welsh shouldn't just be on Welsh radio stations but English stations within Wales too if we could ask them, it would get Welsh music and the language to a broader audience, plus English language radio stations play some foreign music sometimes, so why not play music from a native language? They do it in other countries, and it would encourage the next generation of Welsh music artists, it introduces it to people who can't speak Welsh, and I'm sure there are plenty who don't mind listening to it and quite like to hear it. Start creating movies in Welsh, apps, magazines or e-magazines and ebooks in the Welsh language, I saw something online yesterday about a game on Mabinogi, it would be great for Welsh to be included in games for pc/games consoles. YouTubing in Welsh is a great idea, personally I watch more YouTube than TV these days, and I think a lot of people do. Start Vlogging about things that interest you and you think others will be interested in, like cooking, travel, etc. Try it the Welsh language, try whiteboard animations or something more simple like powerpoint presentation with a voice about certain topics, something like American YouTubers like Todayifoundout are doing. That's just a few ideas.
ReplyInteresting points. When he was alive, John Peel probably did more to promote Welsh language bands than BBC Cymru, which is quite ironic. As a result, I think that Welsh language acts gained more kudos by being played by someone who wasn't Welsh, broadcasting a programme that was probably widely listened to all over Europe.
ReplyVery interesting article. I'm a relatively new speaker of the language, I started speaking Welsh around Christmas 2016. I don't call myself a learner and haven't done for at least about 9 months as I'm now at a level where I am more or less fluent. I moved to Ceredigion from the Rhondda - and I've got a whole social circle and mates who only communicate in Welsh. A lot of good points raised. Welsh language music being key! For me it is almost criminal that you get bands like Yws Gwynedd, Swnami etc - whilst they might not be to everyone's taste, headlining Maes B to absolutely thousands of people, yet outside of Welsh language circles they are relatively unknown and unheard of. I mean, depending on which report you read, Yws Gwynedd played to about 8000 people at Maes B this year!!! In the scale of things that is about 2 nights at the Cardiff International Arena! That's huge! Even bands like Manic Street Preachers do good work selling that out for one night nowadays! I visited a fair bit of Europe last year, and everywhere I'd go - you'd chuck the radio or the music channels on - and you'd hear a local band, followed by a swedish act, followed by some german rock band, followed by Coldplay, followed by some Danish singer, followed by Ed Sheeran, followed by some Spanish dance act. The important thing being the variety. Unless we can get to a stage where we sort of do the same, we're always going to be fighting an uphill battle. English based media has only really given an outlet to a)English speaking acts and b) no-one else really. On the 15-35 audience, you're bang on the mark! You've got "Hansh" nowadays, which is exactly what we need - dynamic youth-based programming born from the internet that is bang on with what people of my age want. It satisfies the appetite of young people who have been brought up on social media (the "make a video on Tuesday, and it's on TV on Thursday" thing) But this is just half an hour a week in a 168 hour week. Again, until we get more channels on the TV than just S4C, I think we're fighting an uphill battle. The challenge will be making the language normal for a lot of people. My Sister-in-law and her husband came up to visit us in Ceredigion from Swansea last Summer, we took them out to some of our local haunts and introduced them to some of our new mates - they spoke in English, but any conversations that didn't involve them took place in Welsh - as they would naturally between us.... ..at the end of the night my Sister in law says to us "Well I'm amazed! I really didn't think anyone actually spoke Welsh once they left school!" She was sadly being serious. She thought it was similar to Latin or something, a language which you learn - but a language you'd never speak in the wild. ..and these are two people who are young enough to have had to do GCSE Welsh as a second language in school!! There's a lot of responsibility on us all as Welsh speakers.We all have to go out there and use our language. Until we start demanding to use it in shops, around town, with our friends etc - then we'll always find it difficult.
ReplyDa iawn ti. wnes i dechrau dysgu am yr un pryd. Ond dywedaist ti dwyt i ddim dysgwyr bellach. Mae gwahaniaeth ymdangos rhwyg y dwy ohonon ni sy'n chi wedi gael mwy profi siarad yn cymraeg pob dydd. Dyna pwynt! Trio creu mwy cyfleoedd i siarad bob dydd. Dw i wrth fy modd yn gwrando i cerddoriaeth cymraeg hefyd. Mae'r problemau ydy'r dywilliant yn Saesneg o popeth yn Saesneg. Rhan o dysgu cymraeg ydy syweddoli bod llawer mwy i mwynhau yn y byd i gyd tu allan dywilliant Saesneg. Dydy bobl ddim yn disgwyl clywed iaith eraill ar y radio, ar y teledu neu ar lein. Mae'n llawer of cerddoriaeth wych yn pob iaith. Dan ni angen tipyn o dywilliant cymraeg yn cymysg efo dywilliant pob dywilliant eraill, i helpu wneud siarad Cymraeg yn nodweddiadol yn pob man. Well done you. I've been learning Welsh for the same amount of time. But you say that you are not a learner anymore. The difference between us seems to be that you've had more experience speaking in Welsh every day. That's the point! Trying to make more oppurtunities to use the language every day. I love listening to Welsh language music too. The problem is the English language culture of everything in English. Part of learnign Welsh is realising that there is lots more to enjoy on the world outside of English. People just don't expect to hear other languages on the radio, on TV or on the internet. There's lots og great music in every language. We need a little Welsh culture mixed in with all other cultures, to help make speaking Welsh normal everywhere.
ReplySut dych chi Squimple!? Oedd neis iawn i glywed bod ti'n dysgu'r iaith hefyd. Dw i wedi cael lot o profiad o siarad yr iaith achos oedd fy ngwraig a fi ddechrau yn yr un amser. Felly oeddwn i'n siarad llawer yn y ty - gwneud cangymeriadau yn y ty cyn mynd mas i'r tref! Ti hollol wir efo beth wedais ti! Ni angen mwy o cyfloedd i glywed yr iaith yn byw normal - S4C yn dda, ond fel y saes yn gweud "You're preaching to the converted". Dyn ni angen pobl fel BBC ac ITV i ddangos pobl jyst maint o siaradwyr Cymraeg yng Nghymru!
ReplyMore fun Welsh apps sites and youtube videos for learners up to advance would be great. Everyone learns differently. Shops like Tescos sell books in English lots of shops selling things like cards in English, they need to start selling Welsh stuff for Welsh speakers and learners.
ReplyTescos etc operate on a purely commercial basis. If t here is sufficient demand they will stock it.
ReplyThe question perhaps is: How many of us Welsh speakers are actually taking the time out to contact Tesco and ask for products in Welsh? How many of us are using the "Welsh option" at the Self-service tills etc. How many of us are going in there and starting every sgwrs yn Gymraeg? The longer we spend doing the English thing because it's the "done way", the worse off we'll be.
ReplyThe Co-Op, however, doesn't. Maybe we could start there. Get yourself elected to your local Society. Push for our rights from within, what claims to be at least, a progressive organisation.
ReplyIn reply to Rob Bruce
The Co-Op would be a great p;ace to start, as they also claim to have community values at the heart of what they do. Many other organisations also claim similar, so perhaps it's about time people like us started to challenge what that actually means when most of them show a dearth of real recognition to our national language.
Reply"Tescos etc operate on a purely commercial basis" ,,, highlighting the problem ... companies should have some duty to local communities...not worthless profit ..... there are deeper truths to life than a few percent increase in profits
ReplyIfan: llawer o bwyntiau da fan hyn. Cytunaf efo rhai, anghytuno efo eraill. Ond cyfraniad i'r ddadl - diolch. If i could make just one adjustment in Cymru, i would introduce mandatory equal presence Cymraeg/English on all packaging and marketing material. Tesco cheapo beans already has several languages on the tins: Turkish, Slovakian Czech Hungarian and so on. No-one, as far as i know complains about the presence of these. Whilst i hate Capel for what it's spineless approach has allowed to occur to our language, the translation by the Church of England of the bible into y Gymraeg, undoubtedly had a positive effect on capturing the Cymraeg of the time and allowing it to be used in the all consuming life passion of the age - religion. The all consuming life passion of our age is consumerism, and our language must be available to engage with this occupation. Belgium has fully bilingual cornflakes packets, and fully bilingual everthing else (Flemish/Wallon). As the contributor Nicky Roberts says people don't realize we speak Cymraeg. Most people no longer read books, but will perforce read cornflake packets, cigarette packets ad - infinitum. Get 'y Beirdd' (bards) to produce advertising copy in our language. Dwi'n byw yng Nghymru, dwi eisiau byw fy mywyd i trwy'r Gymraeg - nid yw'n bosibl eto - mater o hawlfreiniau sylfaenol ydy hyn Ac mi ydwyf yn treulio, fel y mae'n teimlo, hanner fy mywyd cwyno wrth gwmniau'r gwasanaethau anghenrheidiol trwy'r Gymraeg . . .
ReplyMy experience of Belgium is that they don't do bilingualism, except maybe for in the Brussels metropolitan region. In Flanders, everything is Dutch, there are no concessions to French at all, There are historical reasons for this - French was once the language of prestige in the low countries, even the official language of the Royal Family of the Netherlands, and Flemish monolingualism in public life (ironically, of course, now being threatened by English) is a reaction to that. Maybe Belgium can teach us about how successful the Fro/Arfor concept could be, but the other side to it, a wholly English east Wales (where I live), is a depressing thought.
ReplyThis example I found in a shop in Cornwall (Thornes, which is a local grocery chain): https://twitter.com/MawKernewek/status/955745536530894848 The languages on the front of the packaging are English and Icelandic, with ingredients also listed in Swedish on the back. "Having a Welsh language TV channel has served the language well since the 1980s but the idea of a single Welsh channel will have become old hat by the time our children are adults." - not really, it has been old hat for about the last 20 years i.e. since digital TV has been widespread. Where else in the world is stuck in the 1950s model of a single national channel? Also, I don't see why programs in Welsh couldn't be at least occasionally heard beyond S4C, in some ways the existence of S4C lets the rest of the media off the hook for Welsh language service. Perhaps a levy could be put on TV companies, such that ITV or Channel 5 for instance, could have a choice between either making space for Welsh language content to be shown on their own channels, or subsidising S4C financially, which would also diversify its funding since at present it being predominantly funded by the BBC licence fee ultimately threatens its absorption into the BBC despite whatever assurances are given about editorial independence etc. It could also be useful to change the expectation that Welsh speakers are always interviewed in English beyond Welsh-language media.
ReplyDylech ddim wedi ysgrifennu'r erthygl yn gymraeg?
ReplyDwi'n sgwennu lot fawr o stwff yn Gymraeg! Mae'n bwysig ysgrifennu am y Gymraeg yn Saesneg hefyd, neu dim ond siarad efo pobl sy'n cytuno efo ni fyddwn ni. - Ifan
ReplyAm achub yr iaith cymraeg, neu ei hyrwydd os bydd gwell 'da chi, mae rhaid i gyrraed yr rhai sydd ddim yn siarad Cymraeg nawr, yn hytrach na pregethu dim ond wrth yr côr, cyn bod y côr yn gallu bod y waethaf pechadorion o gyd weithiau.
ReplyFel rhywun sy 'di dysgu'r iaith fel oedolyn yn 27 oed 'nol yn yr 80au mae gen i sawl pwynt i godi. Roedd 'n fudiad i hybu'r sin roc a gwerin o'r enw CRAG, (Cyngor Roc a Gwerin) a ddaeth i ben dros ryw 'sgandal' am gael ei ariannu dwywaith o goffrau'r llywodraeth, fel grant uniongyrchol at bwrpas y mudiad ac hefyd fel grant o S4C. Dwi'm yn cofio'r holl stori erbyn hyn, (ond mae ar gael rhywle) ond oherwydd hyn daeth y mudiad i ben. Ond rwy'n dal i gredu bod angen rhywbeth tebyg er mwyn ddenu'r ieuanc i creu diwylliant perthnasol a boblogaidd. Rhaid cofio hefyd rhaglenni teledu fel Fideo 9 a rhaglenni radio gel Heno Bydd yr Adar yn Canu, rhaglenni a gafodd eu lladd yn nyddiau cynnar y 90au. Dwi dal heb maddau BBC Crymu am ddileu Heno Bydd yr Adar yn Canu, rhaglenni perthnasol a boblogaidd ac hefyd soffisitgedig a oedd yn deall bod yn cyfrwng yn rhyngwladol ond bod y cydestun Cymraeg yn hollbwysig. Ac ie, mae cerddoriaeth yn ffordd gwych am ddysgu iaith - treuliais oriau maeth yn gwrando ar gerddoriaeth Cymraeg gyda'r geiriau yn fy mlaen a'r Geiriadur Mawr ar agor yn gyfieithu i'r Saesneg er mwyn i mi deall yn well. Rwy'n cytuno cant y cant am yr angen i gael diwylliant cyfoes perthnasol. Ond mae yna wahaniaeth rhwng sothach a stwff perthnasol sy ddim yn ael uchel. Mae gormod o sothach ar S4C, rhaglenni fel Heno a Prynhawn Da - rhaglenni tsiep, brên dêd. Wrth sôn am pethau brên dêd, dros cyfnod y Dolig gwylias dau ffilm Norwyeg o'r enw 'Død Snø' a 'Død Snø 2' (Eira Marw ac Eira Marw 2). Afraid dweud, ddim diwylliant ael uchel mor ffilimiau! Ond yn hytrach ffilmiau llawn hwyl gyda apêl rhyngwladol Mae hi bron yn amhosib cael gafael ar yr ychydig ffilmiau sy ar gael yn y Gymraeg, ac fel dw i, a sawl eraill wedi dweud ar y tudalennau 'ma, os ydy hi'n bosib ffrydio ffilmiau a rhaglenni Islandeg pam yn y byd ydy hi'n amhosib i wneud yr un peth gyda ffilmiau a rhaglenni Cymraeg? Mae'n pwynt perthnasol iawn ynglyn a thechnoleg. Mae'n hollbwysig bod pethau fel Alexa ar gael yn y Gymraeg, ond yn anffodus mae cyn lleied o bethau cyfrifiadurol ar gael yn y Gymraeg. Er enghraifft, ble mar rhyngwyneb Cymraeg i Android? Os yw ein llywodraeth yn o ddifri am y Gymraeg pam na wnaethon nhw ddarparu cyllid i Gymreigio systemau gweithredu cyfrifiaduron a dim jyst dibynnu ar cwmnïau mawr fel Microsoft i ddarparu haen Cymraeg. Yn olaf, mae'n dda i sôn am yr angen i wneud y Gymraeg mwy berthnasol i fywydau bobl Cymru, a chreu cyfleuoedd i siarad yr iath ayyb. Ond beth am troi iaith mewnol, sef iaith gweinyddu y llywodraaeth, (ar lefel cenedlaethol a lleol)n o'r Saesneg i'r Gymraeg? Byddai hyn yn hwb enfawr dros cadw'r iaith yn fyw, ac hefyd ei wneud yn berhtnasol fel iaith bob dydd. Wrth gwrs, byddai'n amhosib gwneud rhywbeth fel hyn dros nos, ond dros cyfnod eithaf hir dylai hyn bod yn digon posib, ac yn fy marn i, ddymunol iawn os ydyn ni o ddifri am weld dyfodol disglair i'r Gymraeg.
ReplyDyn ni'n colli geiriau ar gyfer bwyd ar raddfa gynyddol o erchrydus. Hoffwn i weld deddfwriaeth er creu diwydiant pecynu cynnyrch yn y Gymraeg yng Nghymru, fel bo modd i bobl weld enwau (nouns) ar gyfer bwydydd yn y Gymraeg. Wylys (auborgine), golwyth (cutlet), lleden (plaice), brwysgedlys (coriander). Dyn ni'n colli geiriau fel hyn heb ddeddfwriaeth pecynu.
ReplyReading Gas & Electric bills is difficult enough, without having to read them in a language which is not your mother tongue. That doesn't apply to me because I don't read Welsh, but I'd fight for others to have the choice.
ReplyYr ystyriaeth bwysica o ran creu siaradwyr Cymraeg yw eu bod yn byw yng Nghymru. Y gwaedlif o allfudiad o Gymry ifainc yw''r bygythiad pennaf. Dim ond hanner un o ddeg pwynt sy'n trin hwn Y cyfraniad pwysica yw'r galwad am ganolbwyntio ar oedran 15-35, falle wir 12-30. Nid yn unig ddylanwadu ar eu hagwedd at y Gymraeg ond yn fwy sylfaenol greu'r ewyllys i fyw yng Nghymru. Ie swyddi, ie cartrefi addas, oe cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth i'w galluogi i fyw mewn cymunedau gwledig, ie diwygiadau amaeth .....ond hefyd roi iddynt gyfrifoldeb gwleidyddol a chymunedol am lunio'r dyfodol. Canolbwyntiodd ymgyrch Rhyddid i'r Ifainc Cymdeithas yr Iaith yn y 90au ar addysg berthnasol, gorfodi Cynghorau Sir i ymgynghori a Chynghorau Myfyrwyr Ysgol, penodiadau ieuenctid etc
ReplyI've recently retired to Wales and am one of hundreds of learners. I'd love it if Welsh speakers in service industries automatically started conversations in Welsh (as if it was France), it would be much easier for learners to have the courage to reply. Also if all the many Welsh speakers always used the language in public, that would help make it the norm in areas where people think the English language is spoken more. I've been very grateful that first language Welsh speakers have been enthusiastic about my faltering efforts.
ReplyI do so agree, Kay. If Welsh speakers started conversations automatically in Welsh it would make it so much easier for shy speakers like me to plunge in and have a go. At the moment I often spend embarrassing moments stalking the staff in shops to see if they speak Welsh to anyone else before speaking to them myself. Silly, I know, and not everyone is as diffident. But the thought of taking a big breath and asking something in Welsh only to get a funny look and an Estuary English reply tends to dampen my enthusiasm, while those kind souls who do take the trouble to encourage me are probably unaware of my deep and heartfelt gratitude. And, as you point out, it would also make Welsh much more visible to non-Welsh speakers who might then be more motivated to learn themselves.
ReplyLast night I spent an idle 3 hours or so before going to bed in catching up on the first 2 instalments of 'Craith' on i player.. What a dispiriting experience! Apparently everyone under the age of about 65 speaks a bastardiised version of Welsh containing a huge number of English words and expressions. If I were to invent a statistic I would say that about 25% of some utterances were pure English. So far as I recollect the only characters who spoke good colloquial Welsh were the dying retired policeman and the shabby (and violent) old mother of the chap who is destined to be the villain of the drama.(unless there is some unexpected twist in the plot later on.) I was amazed to hear common everyday expressions spoken in English despite their availability in Welsh. Fair enough if occasionally technical words not commonly expressed in Welsh are uttered in English, but on our only Welsh TV channel that should surely be the exception not the rule? Why waste broadcasting time on disseminating rubbish Welsh? Step 1 to achieve the 1 million goal should be to use the time available on S4C to broadcast good colloquial Welsh, not mongrel Welsh. My thought for the day!
ReplyFi'n absoliwtli gyted i glywed hynny, Hywel.
ReplyHywel the probelem is that S4C commission these noir dramas - Craith/Y Gwyll/ Un Bore Mercher , written in English by non Welsh speakers and are then translated literaly and badly - into Welsh - thsi habit is taking over and is a travesty - there are some fine Welsh scriptwriters about who could write natural colloqiual Welsh eg - Rownd a Rownd probably the best soapy dramam series on TV. Stopped watching the noirs as the welsh countryside is seen through the prism of townies from piontcann and beyond who thingk that nobody has repapered their living rooms since the investiture. Its a formula not a drama, cos they want to sell it. But I think the ideas here are on the mark IMJ
ReplyYou over simplify the "problem" with S4C and TV in general. Despite the proliferation of available media/channels due to advances in technology much of the mainstream is still engaged in churning out low grade bullshit for the "masses" or the mass market. S4C is politically constrained to replicate the stances of the major UK players, BBC, ITV, SKY, and hence your mix of "fashionable noir", chat shows, visits to celebs homes ( ychafi ! ) superficial current affairs ( max 25 mins), repetitive soaps, with occasional splashes of stuff deemed to be uniquely Welsh, like noson lawen, annual folk/clog dancing, and a couple of farming shows. The dilution of language quality has happened because some trendy media twit has deemed it to be the "right way" and again this fits neatly with the direction of travel chosen by the Bay cliques. Sibrydion Mawr above has a dig at cheap programming, again a formula directed by the channel as it operates within severe budget constraints yet most of us pay the TV licence fee and possibly a SKY monthly subscription yet have no say in this output. Now you may say change the priorities, fair enough, but be careful that we don't send it up a narrow niche even smaller than that which it currently occupies. Maybe there is scope for a new indie channel using alternative media but that too would require some serious funding to give it momentum. One aside while on this. To see a high standard of spoken Welsh on S4C, virtually untainted by Wenglish or lazy choice of vocabulary, I suggest that readers should watch Angharad Mair in action on Heno or any programme where she may appear as a guest. Despite the quality, or because of it, there is no difficulty with understanding her. Top quality spoken Welsh is rare and often dismissed as somehow unecessary, well watch this lady deliver, classy. Others would do well to take their cue from her.
ReplyAn obvious one that no one has discussed- Pay Welsh-speaking parents to have more children. This already happens in Italy to increase the birth rate. If every Welsh couple has five or six children, then we would be getting somewhere.
ReplyExactly. Welsh-speaking couples having big Welsh-speaking families, and their children in turn having big families, and so on, is how language and culture grows. Nations are strengthened from the bottom up, not the top down. For our government to protect our culture and language it must ensure a healthy economy where such growth is viable and desirable - something it is currently failing miserably to do. Government language programmes and targets will not suffice. If that requires paying people to create large Welsh-speaking families as an interim measure, then so be it.
ReplyThis would require Welsh Speaking persons to fall in love with each other which might be straightforward if they stay in the Fro Gymraeg but the further they stray from the language the less likely they are to marry and breed. There used to be a dating site for Welsh Speakers, could this not be resurrected? We appear to be waiting on 'lwc, siawns a ffawd' or luck, chance and fate' whereas a Welsh Government which is serious about the Welsh Language would bring in 'English Not' as opposed to 'Welsh Not'. A element of compulsion, not in education but for all adults who decide to live in Wales, they must display competent usage after five years or be fined or beaten around the ankles with a stick. The days of good will towards the Welsh Language are over. If we are relying on the good will of the populace and protesting and commenting to get us to 1 million speakers by 2050, then we might as well chwibanu yn y gwynt.
ReplyIn reply to Pen-Cloch
Would this 'English Not' initiative also apply to those born and bred and living in Wales? By 2023 would we be fining and beating such folk? This could potentially include up to 80% of the indigenous population! Interesting thought though.....
ReplyIn reply to Muddy Valley
Yes! It is obviously a measure of desperation and last option. Maybe the closer we get to 2050 could the beatings and fining become more frequent. Say 2041 after the Census figures for that decade.
ReplyThe idea of paying one section of society to have more children, presumably at the expense of other parts of society - resources are finite - personally, fills me me horror. What next, provide preferential support to families of a specific faith or ethnic grouping? Would there be degrees in Welsh language parental proficiency to determine payments, would there be lump sums based on the child's abilities? Sorry but this could never be the way forward for me, have we not learned the lessons are all to recent history?
ReplyChill out no one is seriously saying this, although it happened in Ireland after independence. "slippery slope" argument is a logical fallacy
ReplyIn reply to Edeyrn
As my late Irish grandmother often said 'many a true word spoken in jest'. She also used to, with an ominous glare, talk about 'slippery slopes' and 'no smoke without fire'. Bless her.
ReplyWhile living in southern Africa, I was fascinated by their approach to multi-lingualism in the media. For example, you do get the totally Afrikaans (rather stuffy and conservative) radio and TV stations and similar services for other groups like Zulu and Xhosa but the most popular commercial stations and programmes seem to move seamlessly between different languages. I used to listen to OFM in the Free State which is a largely English commercial station that would have scheduled news broadcasts in Afrikaans alternating with English ones. Adverts are often in Afrikaans as well as English and sometimes in Sotho. The music is mostly international pop mixed with local stuff in different languages. So it sort of blurred the divide between languages (primarily English and Afrikaans) giving the sense that both have a life (Afrikaans is seriously under threat and often portrayed as a dying language). Try OFM ... it's online.
ReplyWhy has so little work been done on this crucial sector worldwide? I am often taken aback at how little information and courses that are available for developing the language of the family and home anywhere in the world. The Moray Language Centre has been working on this area since 2011 but I first started on this sector in 1985 after parents said they wished to develop their Gaelic at home and in the family especially where only one parent or neither parent spoke Gaelic but wanted to see a change of language or a bilingual Gaelic-English home created. The issue and subject was first raised with me in 1981 but I spent about 3 years looking for suitable material on the subject and found very little. Can someone explain why so little work has been done on this sector as it is clear for all to see that you cannot develop a long term strategy for reviving or even strengthening or holding the language at the present level without developing a practical language use strategy in the family and home.
ReplyI wonder if the following is of use to the Welsh Language. Developing the Gaelic Family and Home Sector The Moray Language Centre have developed the following courses and information handbooks for the new sector related to the language of the family and home. We realise this is a small selection for parents who wish to bring Gaelic into the Family and Home to what will be required in order to create stable language communities development in the long term. 1) The Family Language Action Plan. (Language Planning in the Home with one, two or neither parent Gaelic speaking). 2) The Babycare Gaelic Language Course (4 levels) 3) The Gaelic In The Home Course 4) 8 Courses for the 3 to 18 year olds. 5) 100 Board and Card Games for the Family Course 6) The Language of Endearment Booklet 7) Gaelic Activities in the Community for the Family 8) 10 Gaelic Lifestyle Courses for the 18-27 age group 9) Information Videos and Booklets a) Learning Gaelic Before The Child Is Born b) Social Language Courses 10) The Parenthood Language Course for Expectant Parents 11) Information Meetings for the general public on this new sector All the about courses have accompanying training courses plus Handbooks for Tutors.
Reply"It's pointless trying to revive the leaves on a tree (the language) - if the tree is being poisoned at it's roots (the poison of education in it's present form)" Any nation that is to survive requires three basic things. 1. It's language 2. It's culture 3. Knowledge of it's own history and traditions. Since the Compulsory Education Act of 1870 came into force our nation has been subjected to the influences of our governing colonial masters. This has been an attempt at eradication of our knowledge of ourselves, and the preservation of our unique identity through the education system forced upon us. For more detailed information please read the essay at this URL address: http://sccambria.com/erthyglau/erth-add_cymraeg.htm What we are experiencing is forced assimilation through the education system. It's a well understood and recognised technique employed by all imperial powers that colonise other lesser countries in their control.
ReplySomething I just absolutely pester everyone about is number 3. In a sense which applies to the present day of course. But its a case of which one of those three things has the best chance of building a modern united Welsh nation? Welsh folk who are educated from the British perspective will have that innate view of keeping Welsh language and culture at arms length (the colonised self loathing view stems from here as I'm sure you know) in favour of "British" culture. Personally find that colonisation through the education system fascinating (I studied it for my degree long ago) and believe understanding how the dissemination of information through not just the media but through the education system is really key to fixing our situation. But its got to be done a certain way as not to upset that indoctrination against "other" cultures that the British education system constructs. As far as colonising people goes... Owain Glyndwr and Henry VIII are the extreme examples. Owain calling himself Prince clearly showed his English education - as did his fighting for the English. But ultimately no matter how hard he tried to ascend the English hierarchy they still saw him as Welsh. A Welsh speaker to boot... which is Plaid's mistake in putting their eggs totally on language - I can speak more French than Welsh - doesn't mean i think like a Frenchman. Henry VIII is another example - Welsh victory as Bosworth but the Tudors were already straddling the Anglo-Welsh world - Henry was brought up English and therefor had no appreciation or understanding of his own Welsh language and identity. The latter being the most important and prominent example of the colonisation of a person through education. In order to decolonise our nation we must decolonise our people.
ReplyThough to correct you on one point I believe it was the 1902 education act which saw an end to schools run by non-conformists. It was always baffling to me why my grandfathers eldest siblings could speak Welsh but he could not and being Baptists turns out non-conformists schools were pushed out by the Anglican sect in the Conservative Party at the time.
ReplyIndeed. You can teach a parrot to speak Welsh, it doesn't make him a Welshman. Whilst there has been a huge focus on the language, and the promotion of Welsh medium education schools, with the assumption that it will be a 'cure all' - if we can get everyone to speak it. It does not take into consideration that our future as a nation depends on more than uttering Welsh words. You can't make a plait with less than three strands, lose one and you're in difficulty, loose two and you're doomed. Focusing on the Welsh language on it's own is a ridiculous exercise. Of course it needs preserving, but without our culture and knowledge of our history, traditions and heroes it's a futile exercise. People still read and write Latin, but is it a living language? Give people a good knowledge of their culture, history and traditions and they'll queue up to learn the language - it's the icing on the cake. Teaching children the history of Yr Estron (the English Empire) through the medium of Welsh is equally futile. We need an education system that's tailored to our meeds as a nation. To do that you need independence and the power and control to teach our children the correct information. The rest falls into place, including the future preservation of our ancient and unique language. Singing 'Yma o hyd' and building Welsh medium schools will only preserve the leaves for a short period. If the tree continues to be poisoned through it's roots it will all die - including the leaves.
ReplyTeaching Welsh History as a priority is vital to fuel loyalty to the Welsh language on youngsters who may not be aware of the struggles that have been fought to preserve the right to speak Welsh in Wales. Encouraging employers to adopt Welsh speaking initiatives is a good way of promoting the language in a work context as well. I’m really enjoying learning to speak Welsh and would love a Welsh Speaking Initiatve in shops and in companies in Wales
ReplyOne really simple step - which won't save the language but would be SUCH a simple thing to do - would be to have a Welsh option on mobile phones or tablet devices, and I'm not talking about the actual apps but just the basic interface. You can in Irish and Catalan among many other smaller languages, so why not Welsh? I can't imagine it being a very complex thing to do, it's just a matter of doing it. Another would be to normalise the use of Welsh interfaces on PC's particularly the still-dominant Office programmes which actually have this option. Microsoft computers also have Welsh interfaces but are seldom used. However I don't think a single, for example, school in Wales actually uses them (although I may be wrong), nor does any public body, and very few private companies do.
ReplyAgree with you completely. I have posed the question a few times now on these pages as to why the Welsh Assembly Government hasn't coughed up some cash to get the Android interface translated into Welsh. As you say, it's hardly rocket science, just a bit of work changing default entries on a locale file. If an Android device can have an interface in Icelandic then I'm damn sure it should have one in Welsh. Given that Android is the world's most popular operating system, there needs to me far more focus on it than there is as far as the Cymraeg is concerned. I only have one Windows device, and that's my dual boot tablet, which Android/Windows, though I hardly ever boot into Windows. I have installed the Welsh interface though, more out of curiosity than anything else. I'd love to be able to have a Welsh language interface on my android devices, of which I have several in daily use. I also use Linux on my desktop computer, media centre and various other computers in my possession. I gave up using Windows several years ago due to frustrations with the operating system. Most Linux distros offer multilingual options upon installation, and are at various stages of completeness. I have all my machines set up for Cymraeg, and though there are no 100% complete translations, (the group responsible for making the Welsh translations seems to have been dormant for a number of years) it's mostly done and provides an environment that is 85% + Cymraeg. Even if the locale set up at installation isn't the one desired, it's easily changed to the one desired. I think the issue over so few actually using a Welsh language interface in a work situation is probably to do with being able to easily change it back and forth between languages. It wouldn't be an issue if all people working in the public sector at least were Welsh speaking, (which I think would be desireable), but the reality is that it's going to be the common denominator, which is English, as I doubt systems admins are going to be happy to be constantly on hand to change local setttings several times a day, which would be the case in most work settings where network security is a paramount consideration.
ReplyExcellent article. Just as a positive footnote: I wonder how many Welsh speakers and learners in Wales are aware of the worldwide interest in Welsh? Websites like Say Something in Welsh (https://www.saysomethingin.com/welsh/level1/intro) and Duolingo (https://www.duolingo.com/course/cy/en/Learn-Welsh-Online) have learners all over the world. SSIW and Braw Media have created maps flagging learners all over the globe: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1-u0oiFfAO1EAw8FaczzWKRKXmdw&ll=44.06430349553396,-110.30114724999999&z=1 and http://braw.media/help-map-the-welsh-language-around-world/ I am a Welsh learner - with no Welsh connections at all - of just over a year, living in Germany, where of course practice opportunities are few. I’m part of a lively international online community closely following and encouraging suggestions such as those made in this article and thrilled to discover the parallel world described in point 10 (We have to realise that because the Welsh language world in which we live is inaccessible to non-Welsh speakers, it’s also largely invisible to them) gradually unfolding to us as we progress. The single most important thing that would help Welsh learners progress more quickly would, in my experience, be more programmes with WELSH subtitles, not English (I do know that some do indeed have Welsh subtitles, but by no means all) and Welsh-language radio programmes with transcripts. Where feasible, of course - live broadcasts are obviously not suitable.
ReplyManylyn, ond mae’n bwysig imi: cytuno gyda Benjiman ar enwau bwyd, e.e. angen cadw ysbinbysg yn ogystal â draenog môr...ond gas gen i’r gair ‘wylys’. Piwsyn/piwsod yw’r berejenas neu aubergines yn ein gardd a’n cegin ni a byddwn i’n annog pawb i iwso nhw neu wrth gwrs feddwl am air gwell.
ReplyReally good, thought-provoking article. If I were granted 3 main priorities to be followed to promote and empower the Welsh language in Wales( let's abandon all this negative and doom-laden talk of "saving the language), I would go for a short term, mid-term and long term approach. 1. Short-term: Establish ARFOR( a single authority for Mon, Gwynedd, Ceredigion and Caerfyrddin operating through the medium of Welsh) immediately. We are half-way there already following Ynys Mon's decision to follow Gwynedd's example. Saunders Lewis said with his usual prescience that any Welsh Government established in Cardiff would all be in vain as far as the language was concerned unless the Welsh-speaking areas of the West made Welsh the main language of public authorities in those areas.. ARFOR woud meet the three key points emphasized by socio-linguists in terms of sustaining and developing a minority language: It would provide meaningful STATUS for the language, REASONS to value the language as a workplace medium, and OPPORTUNITIES to use the language. Just DO IT Eluned Morgan. This would be a much better and more achievable target than this fanciful and meaningless aim of a million speakers by 2050. 2. Mid-term As someone else has mentioned, pass a law to ensure that Welsh has to be used on all packaging on food and drink sold in Wales. Food and Drink is a huge driver of social and economic and cultural behaviour in modern day Wales. It really is the modern equivalent of bilingual road signs in the 60ies, I am absolutely convinced this would lead to a renewed interest in Welsh all over Wales and persuade many more people to learn the language. Ideally, it would be fantastic to see a Welsh supermarket springing up and trailblazing with this( similar to the situation in the Basque country)- but in the meantime, let's campaign for this to become commonplace in our existing supermarkets over the next 5-10 years. 3 Long-term Ensure that every school pupil in Wales has not only an opportunity to learn through the medium of Welsh BUT that every school pupil is fully informed about the history of the language across the centuries. Providing the context and the WHY relating to Welsh is almost as important as teaching the language itself.With the best will in the world, and even if we have a Government in place which proves as supportive to Welsh as recent governments in Catalunya and the Basque Country have been to their respective languages: we have to accept that not every school pupil will take up the opportunity to learn Welsh at school in future. But, if every school pupil learnt about the history and context of the language( be that through the medium of English in several areas in Wales) and how it has survived for so long living alongside the most expansionist, imperialistic language in the world over so many centuries: that is bound to leave an indelible impression on pupils' minds which would have a long term positive effect.
ReplyDim ond ysgolion Cymraeg i bawb sy'n byw yng Nghymru !Dim air o Saesneg ,felly bydd rhaid iddynt siarad Cymraeg.Pan oeddwn yn byw yn Canada roedd cyfle i blant ddysgu Ffraneg trwy "French immersion schools",popeth yn Ffraneg
ReplyY gwir yn erbyn y byd - The truth against the world.If we are not aware of our past,we dont really know what our future should be like.Teaching Welsh (native british history) is key to giving our young people the vision to grasp millennia of a proud culture.unfortunately our history has been air brushed from view and replaced by a germanic version where only the history of foreigners is recorded- the romans.saxons and normans.This historial consensus is now regarded as the truth but the real truth must be taught to our children if the language and culture is to flourish.
ReplyOn the subject of learners. Why aren't we really actively promoting some of the things that really work. We want more learners and welsh for adults may be fantastic, but it's simply not easy for working people to access and sign up - you need to have some commitment before you even think of starting - also unless you're retired you have to spend a fair amount of money. There are plenty of great intensive courses, but they cost money and you have to be determined and have a reason to start. Coffee mornings are great, but most of us are working in the day and have plans for the weekends. Promote things like saysomething in Welsh more widely - also perhaps Duolingo, so that everyone in Wales is very aware of them. These are not in competition for Welsh for Adults, but will probably drive more traffic towards the more traditional classes over time - perhaps some of the resources in Welsh for adults could also be reconfigured slightly to deal better with people who are jumping off from these things onto their courses. The WRU and FAW could commision SSIW style materials using the voices of perhaps Ken Owens, Osian Roberts as male voices and a mix of sporting and other voices for the female voices. Maybe the people at SSIW don't want that I don't know them and can't speak for them, but they have developed something that works and support should be given to take it to another level, with more awareness etc. If there are things that are working, then invest in them somehow and support them - we need our home grown sport, arts and businesses to actually help to develop them further. If the Principality building society can spare some dosh for sponsorship of the stadium, then I'm sure they could spare £10 or 20k to support learning the language and using it - ditto dwr Cymru, Cardiff City football club, the Swans and why not the major non-Welsh retailers as well.
ReplyI think there are some excellent ideas in these comments, the post and the original ideas by Elin Maher that inspired it. Three additional points that haven't been mentioned yet (I don't think): 1 - Producing more content in Welsh is all well and good, but we are now at the point where a good, publically accessible repository for this - especially film and television - is decades overdue. There are hundreds and hundreds of hours of Welsh-language content - much of it paid for to a great extent by public money - which are completely inaccessible to the average user. Did you know that there are over 60 feature length films in Welsh? It doesn't really matter though, because if I set out today to try and watch as many as possible I'd not be able to find more than a handful of them in any format. We need an online film and video streaming archive, to ensure that content - past, present and future - is widely available. Think 4OD, but in Welsh. It could expand to include Welsh-relevant English-language content not widely available (like that history documentary someone got in trouble for for putting on YouTube). 2 - Normalisation is a key factor, and including Welsh on things like food packaging is a good idea in that regard - but on its own would probably only serve to reinforce the existing misconception that Welsh language services are under-used. We need to increase the profile of Welsh, not as a language on forms but heard and spoken. When the Six Nations kicks off in just over a week's time, there's a good chance that as much as half the Welsh team will be Welsh speakers (depends who makes the team, but you have Ken Owens, Seb Davies, Gareth Davies, Rhys Patchell, Owen Williams, Scott Williams, George North, Steff Evans and probably a few more others). Yet I'd guess the average Welsh rugby fan doesn't know that, because unless you're watching S4C you almost never get to hear them. The proportion of welsh speakers is probably similarly high or even higher in other sports and among Welsh actors, politicians etc. I love hearing Ian Davies and Nigel Owens refereeing games in Welsh, not least because it's pretty much the only time you'll hear Welsh on BBC Wales, but mostly because it shows how Welsh is perfectly useable for everyday things like sport. We can't force people to speak Welsh on TV or elsewhere if we don't want to, but we could have a media campaign in which prominent Welsh speakers - preferably not politicians - could speak about the benefits of Welsh, its impact on their lives and its benefits. 3 - As a related aspect of the above, UK programming that touches on Wales should stop pretending that Welsh doesn't exist. I don't know how many times I've seen episodes of things like Countryfile or Great Railway Journeys visit Gwynedd without Welsh being either heard or mentioned at all. We're expected to be interested in things like Anglesey Sea Salt or the Rail Ale Festival, both of which are all well and good, but what about talking about some of the (Welsh) writers or authors of the area? Another thing: Welsh characters in dramas etc. are never heard speaking Welsh, even when half the actors are Welsh speakers. No wonder people are surprised when they learn how vital the Welsh language actually is, when there is effectively a media blackout on the subject..
Replythank you for this article. I think point 10 is of great importance, as we have significant immigration, mainly from England and we need to develop a strategy to raise the awareness, and secure the support of these people in promoting the Welsh Language. we need to approach this in a positive manner as people like Janet Mackenzie and Kay Pitt, can offer crucial support. I would start by pointing out to visitors that they too have a Brythonic Heritage. One of the problems in present day Britain is that the majority of those living in England think that the Anglo-Saxon tradition is the only tradition relevant to them. They do not realise that the coming of Germanic mercenaries following the Roman era led to “Regime Change” rather than “Ethnic Cleansing” with Anglo-Saxon coming to replace the native Brythonic language. However the Brythonic language persisted for a considerable time and gave rise to Cumbric, Cymraeg [Welsh] and Cernyweg [Cornish]. For example, the Welsh language survived in Herefordshire until the 19th century, and many places still bear their Welsh names. Queen Elizabeth 1’s livelong companion was a Welsh speaker, Blanche Parry, born in Welsh speaking Herefordshire. It is believed she taught her Welsh, and this early bilingual background facilitated the learning of other European languages. One can only hope that those living in England, especially those moving to Wales, come to appreciate that they have a submerged Brythonic heritage and come to value the Welsh language as a living part of that heritage. “O bydded i’r hen iaith barhau”
ReplyThe problem is that the vast majority of people moving to Wales from England have zero interest in the Welsh language, and see it as one of the less positive aspects of living in Wales. Most come here because the housing is relatively cheap, the landscape is spectacular, and because there are already other colonists here, getting brown rice in the local wholefood store is easy. Very few arrive here with any intention of integrating.
ReplyA pretty sweeping statement. In my experience a majority (albeit small) do arrive with the intention of integrating. Perhaps the way forward is to understand the motivations and mindsets of these very welcome folk with their positive contribution to the economy and work with that rather than making seemingly unfounded statements based on prejudice. Brown rice indeed, I am advised that sourcing chia seeds is the main problem!
ReplyIn reply to Muddy Valley
your statement that the (small) majority of people moving to Wales intend to integrate rings true only if you relate it to a period way back in the post 1945 to say mid sixties. At that time numbers were fewer and those who came to buy farms, or work in various careers, tended to get stuck in, many actually making the transition within the time it took their kids to grow into young adults, mastering a sound level of spoken Welsh and immersing themselves in local social activity. That is not the picture today. The so called Fro Gymraeg is becoming saturated because too many of those who arrived since the early 70's have adopted a different stance - no need to bother with the language, no need to bother with the local community activity because too much of it was done in Welsh anyway and "we can't be asked to learn", and ..eventually, "well there's plenty of us incomers around to form our own community". Sounds like a colony, smells like a colony, looks like a colony .... hell, it must be a colony ! Sadly I don't think that those involved are sufficiently aware/sensitive to understand the effect they have had.
ReplyIn reply to Dafis
I don't think that many of them care anything like enough, and if you have the temerity to challenge them, you get labeled a 'racist', which is kind of ironic. These kinds of people are so hypocritical, paying lip service to such things as intersectionality, but yet seem to forget that in Wales, it's a pretty glaring omission to not include the Welsh language in that - which shows to me the sheer hypocrisy and virtue signalling of these group thinking idiots.
ReplyIn reply to Muddy Valley
A sweeping statement maybe, but no less true because of that. And far from being prejudice, it's the result of personal experience, and far from unfounded. I lived for a number of years in West Wales, so I am very familiar with the virtual apartheid that exists there. My experience chimes with that of Dafis, and there is indeed a definite chronological cut off point where the cultural situation changes radically. I've met numerous people who moved to Wales in Sixties and early Seventies who came here initially out of curiosity and found that they liked the place, settled down, and integrated, which means they learned Welsh. You seem to think that I have a bias, a prejudice against English settlers, but not a bit of it, (though I have to say that I am very wary of English people I have not met, as so many of them have pretty disgusting and arrogant attitudes towards the Welsh, and especially the Welsh language) but I am opposed to colonialism. I was once very worried whether I was indeed prejudiced, but one experience in the early Nineties removed all fear that I was. I happened to be in a local pub one evening in a small West Wales town, in the public bar, as that was where the locals were congregated and I could be assured of being able to speak Welsh. I got to chatting to the man serving behind the bar, and we found we had common interests, and I was particularly interested as though he spoke Welsh with local intonations, he was actually easy to understand, (though I am originally from West Wales, I speak, broadly speaking, North Wales Welsh, and often find the West Wales dialects somewhat unintelligible initially). It was only after having chatted for some considerable time that I asked the inevitable question that all Welsh people ask one another, where was he from? I was quite astounded by his reply, as I was expecting somewhere like Cardigan, not Essex. It transpired that he'd come to West Wales on holiday in the early Seventies and liked it so much he decided to stay, just 'picking up' the language. He must have been very determined, as anyone who has learned the language to real fluency, i.e. so they speak Welsh like a native, knows that you don't just 'pick it up', and that the phrase is actually an euphemism for putting in a lot of effort and being a real pain in the proverbial to every Welsh speaker within earshot, who would quite likely be totally mystified, and not a little bewildered as to why anyone, particularly an educated English person should want to do something as bizarre as to learn Welsh! I realised after meeting this man that my concern was most definitely not the origins of people moving to Wales, but their intentions and the kind of people they were. I have huge issues with those who think they can just move to Wales and basically lord it over local Welsh people, acting as if they were some latter day Marcher Lords. Whilst there are obvious issues we face due to the numbers of retirees moving to Wales, the most culturally destructive are those who regard themselves as 'right on' eco-warrior types, such as those who set up that colony The Centre for Alternative Technology, a cultural abscess on the body of Wales, and other such colonial enclaves where the Welsh are largely regarded as an inconvenience and the Welsh language accorded token status, at best.
ReplyMany often say the targets are simply targets and not ambitious enough and thats true. What we need is an ambitious plan for fifteen million Celtic language speakers by 2030. Proposterous - yes, but challenging and infinitely more exciting. PS if you've got Irish ancestry and think thats crazy then surely you'd be up for the crac.
ReplyWolframAlpha estimates the total population of the Celtic nations to be 20 million: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+brittany+%2B+population+of+loire-atlantique+%2B+population+of+Wales+%2B+population+of+cornwall,+uk+%2B+population+of+scotland+%2B+population+of+republic+of+ireland+%2B+population+of+northern+ireland I've not included the Isle of Man because it wont let me write any more in the search bar but this is less than 100,000.
ReplyAnd many many more outside of those nations like to acknowledge their Celtic ancestry - which applies to just about everyone in Europe this side of the Rhine and quite a lot the other side as well. There's a bigger pool to tap into than the 20 million in the countries themselves.
ReplyI seriously doubt that there are only 150,00 first language Welsh speakers in England - I know of at least 100,000 from my school!! But you're not allowed to put Welsh as your first language on the census if you live in England. I would love to know the true amount. Say it's about 250,000 - 300,000, then there's almost 900,000 speakers, and a few more in Scot / Ire. If we were a city Welsh speakers would be the second largest city in Prydain. Lets all move in. 3 x the amount of people than Iceland. Attracting them back to Wales would be one of my key priorities - an almighty task, but if we're talking about 32 years, then it's slightly more feasible.
ReplyHi Apgras, which school did you attend, on what basis do you estimate 100k are first language speakers living in England? Your data could certainly raise a few eyebrows here and there. Let's not get to carried away though - the population of Greater Manchester in 2.5m, Greater Glasgow 1.2m and Birmingham 1.1m, even Liverpool and Cardiff (where 85% have no knowledge of Welsh) are about 900k. An almighty task. Should it be a priority? If so how?
ReplyMost sources say 100 - 150,000k. https://calls.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/4844.pdf - it was 110,00 in 2001. My city of Cymraeg speakers if of course tongue in cheek, I'm just trying to use it as a way of showing how large a group we are on a global level and that we could more than pay our way :) I would target the brightest school students and provide them with summer placements in their local area, so they keep ties with the area - sense of place and pride. Invest in a scheme that offers an attractive package to set up businesses in their local area, once they've had different experiences - university, different culture etc. No age restrictions as the 30+ bracket, who'd be more ready to moving back home, but have gained the experience of working in big cities or foreign countries. I have no many friends that want to move back home, to bring up their families, but there just aren't the sectors here for them and their spouses. I moved back after being away and have found the job market very underwhelming since i left Uni in 2008 (granted 10 years of financial turmoil didn't help) - would love to start a business. Hopefully the Development Bank of Wales can provide some incentive..?
ReplyI think it's stretching it a bit far to claim that 85% of people in Cardiff have 'no knowledge' of Welsh. Granted, that proportion may not have more than a smattering of Welsh, but they would have few problems with many Welsh language phrases, such as greetings etc. Many learn a little Welsh, as they feel it's important to be able to at least show some solidarity with their children/grand children. And even though there may not be more than about an eighth of the capital's population able to speak Welsh, most parents are very supportive towards the language. I certainly found that most Cardiffians had some basic knowledge of Welsh when I spent some time as a Welsh language tutor, but I was quite bowled over to discover that the situation in Newport was quite different, where most people didn't seem to have any knowledge of Welsh, though I was also very pleasantly surprised by the the enthusiasm there for the language amongst learners. I'm not aware of what the situation in Liverpool is as regards knowledge of the language, but I would suspect that there is broad support for it, as many Liverpudlians have a Welsh heritage of which they are increasingly proud. Whatever the figures are, they will be a matter for conjecture whilst the numbers of Welsh speakers are not counted in England. They're almost certain to be surprisingly high in numbers, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to discover that London contains the greatest numbers of Welsh speakers of any city in the world.
ReplyYou create Gaelic communities by having Gaelic in the families and homes. Is that not the same in Wales?
ReplyWe need to look at every age group to see where the problems are. 0-4 lack of Welsh language childcare. The cylchoedd meithrin tend to be for a few hours a day, only really suitable for children who have one parent at home. Lots of parents work full time now and need childcare from 8-6. How many of those nurseries are Welsh-medium. We also need to look at the standard of Welsh spoken in the so-called Welsh-medium or bilingual nurseries. Many of the workers there can't really have conversations in Welsh. School - pupils in primary school are often being taught Welsh by teachers who are only one chapter ahead. They need to be taught by fluent speakers, these could be travelling teachers who specialise in teaching Welsh, rather than the usual form teachers. Wrap-around care in Welsh for the children of working parents. Homework schools in Welsh including provision for children from English-medium schools. More funding for the Urdd and the Urdd to include a wider range of activities. Free or affordable classes for adults with grants for workplaces to be able to release people to go on intensive or residential courses that work better than doing two hours a week for 6 years. Good programmes for learners on TV. Those for beginners should be on BBC or ITV Wales rather than S4C as they contain large sections of explanations in English and to reach non-Welsh speakers. Programmes for advanced learners and 'gloywi iaith' on S4C. I think someone mentioned above free access to Cysill for everyone. This wouldn't even make a dent in the government's budget. Also a kind of Duolingo for gloywi iaith so that people can keep improving throughout their life. More evening activities in Welsh for teenagers and adults. More opportunities to practice, including in the evenings as working people can't make coffee mornings etc.
Reply" I certainly found that most Cardiffians had some basic knowledge of Welsh when I spent some time as a Welsh language tutor" If you're relying on your experience of being a tutor, then surely you mean people who sign up for language classes rather than Cardifians in general. An English friend asked a Cardiff woman how to say the word Heddlu, which is shown on every police car, and she replied she'd never seen or heard the word. Lots of people have absolutely no interest and the older generation often weren't taught anything at school. Some people know Bore da and Nos Da, dim parcio and araf, but a lot of Welsh people's knowledge never goes further than yacky da.
ReplyMy experience of Belgium is that they don't do bilingualism, except maybe for in the Brussels metropolitan region. In Flanders, everything is Dutch, there are no concessions to French at all, There are historical reasons for this - French w...
Comments are reviewed before they appear.