Welsh Government refuses to release details of First Minister's call to Downing Street about benefits reforms

Emily Price

The Welsh Government has refused to release details of who exactly the First Minister spoke to at Downing Street to express concerns about major changes to the benefits system.

Back in early March, Baroness Eluned Morgan told Senedd Members she had personally spoken with Number 10 about UK Government plans to slash spending on welfare by billions over the next decade.

It came after the First Minister had written to the Work and Pensions secretary Liz Kendall seeking a Wales specific impact assessment of the plans.

The overhaul is expected to disproportionally affect Wales due to the higher proportion of the working-age population relying on Personal Independence Payments compared to England.

At the end of March, Baroness Morgan was grilled by the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister on who exactly she had spoken to at Number 10 about the potential impact of the reforms on Welsh communities.

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Officials

She said told the committee she could not remember who she spoke with - but added that it was not the Prime Minister, Sir Keir Starmer.

Relaying the details of the phone call, the First Minister said: "I set out, gave them a sense of the concentration of the numbers of people who are on, in particular, sickness benefits in some of our communities.

"I’m told afterwards that that did help to inform their decision making."

Baroness Morgan later said she would provide a list of names to the committee of the No 10 officials she had spoken with.

Three months later, the Welsh Government still won't reveal the names or job titles of the officials the First Minister had discussions with.

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Meeting

In a statement sent to the committee this week, the Welsh Government stated: "The phone call took place between the First Minister and relevant officials in 10 Downing Street.

"The First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice will be speaking to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions this week."

We asked the Welsh Government if it were the case that Baroness Morgan only spoke with civil servants about her concerns - and not members of the UK Government cabinet.

A spokesperson would not confirm if this were true.

They said: "An initial phone call took place between the First Minister and officials at Number 10 Downing Street.

"That was followed up by conversation with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to discuss the proposed welfare reforms."

'Nothing further'

We asked if the meeting with Liz Kendall took place recently - almost three months after the First Minister first spoke with Downing Street "officials".

A Welsh Government spokesperson said they had "nothing further to add".

A separate Welsh Government source later confirmed that the First Minister met with Liz Kendall and the Cabinet Secretary of Social Justice, Jane Hutt, on June 4th.

They added that Baroness Morgan had been communicating with the UK Government on the reforms before this.

But the source was unable to provide specific details aside from a letter Liz Kendall had sent to the FM on March 28th - 10 days after the the UK Government launched its Green Paper on the potential policy changes.

'Larry the cat'

Plaid Cymru’s Llŷr Gruffydd says that despite Labour's claim of a "partnership in power", cabinet ministers appeared unable to make time to speak directly with Wales' leader.

He said: "Over three months since the First Minister’s call to the Number 10 switchboard it appears that neither the Prime Minister nor any of his cabinet colleagues were willing to make the time to speak to Eluned Morgan.

"Even now, after being pressed by a Senedd Committee, the First Minister is unwilling to say anymore than the fact she spoke to 'relevant officials'.

"It might be an upgrade on Larry the cat but does nothing to demonstrate to the people of Wales that the First Minister has any real influence within her own party."