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Wales needs to take control of youth justice, says police boss

By NationCymru
Arfon Jones

A police boss is calling for youth justice to be devolved to Wales.

North Wales Police and Crime Commissioner Arfon Jones spoke out following the appointment of the most senior judge in England and Wales to head up a review of how the justice system works in Wales.

The Lord Chief Justice, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, who retires in October, will chair the Welsh Government's Commission on Justice in Wales.

According to First Minister Carwyn Jones, there was a need to improve access to justice and to reduce crime with a system "truly representative of Welsh needs".

At the moment Welsh courts are part of the same system and jurisdiction as England's - and are under the control of Westminster, even though the Welsh Assembly has been able to legislate in some areas of policy since 2011.

"I welcome Lord Justice Thomas's appointment following his distinguished service as Lord Chief Justice," Arfon Jones said.

"Wales already has a distinct body of law and operates on an All Wales basis with a High Court and high-performing local jurisdictions.

"There are a number of issues which I would like to see as Police and Crime Commissioner and Chair of North Wales Local Criminal Justice Board be devolved to Wales.

"Chief amongst them is the devolvement of Youth Justice which is the only children's service in Wales that is not devolved.

"I would also like to see a law change whereby the Welsh Government would have more flexibility to introduce harm reduction measures for problematic drug use as they do with alcohol.

"I also believe that more victim and witness services should be devolved as we need to provide a Welsh language service, a priority that is rarely on  the Ministry of Justice's radar."

The First Minister announced a commission to create a 'distinct Welsh justice system' on Monday.

The First Minister said: "In Wales, we have had a separate legislature for six years but, as yet, we do not have our own jurisdiction.

"By establishing the Commission on Justice in Wales, we are taking an important first step towards developing a distinctive justice system which is truly representative of Welsh needs.

Carmarthen-born Lord Thomas added Wales "offers unique opportunities to identify new solutions to the complex challenges facing justice and the legal profession".


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5 comments

Dafydd ap Gwilym

Here we go again! Can we put up with Arfon Jones yet again doing or saying what is right for Wales?! And do nothing ourselves?! Seriously though, at a time when we have few people in authority or who should be representing us and standing up for our country it is fantastic to see and hear Arfon Jones doing just that, again. I have no doubts that he will continue to do so too! From someone not in the same constituency area as Arfon I'd like to say, diolch yn fawr iawn anyway and please, keep up the good work!

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Tame Frontiersman

I don’t fault the reasoning in this post. I do, however, worry about the constant drip, drip, drip of devolution. I am concerned that constant distraction from 2 “processes not events” - devolution and Brexit, means that many issues in Wales, modernisation of infrastructure, dealing with an unsustainable agricultural sector, the crisis in the rural economy, the decline of Welsh in its heartlands, funding health and social care, low productivity and investment et al aren’t being addressed with due urgency.

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Edeyrn

The "England and Wales" tag...is an outdated colonial concept that completely hides the detail and differences between Welsh and English system It originates from when Wales was officially called 'England' from 1536 right up until the 1950s. Scotland only avoids this justice and statistics lump in due to its different law system

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Jonathan Edwards

Tame Frontiersman, lets break this down a little. Devolution meaning "funding health and social care, low productivity and investment et al" are not dealt with? Wales lost its source of income starting in 1914 when the Royal Navy switched away from burning our coal. In the 103 subsequent years we have had failures to act effectively. We had devolution for about the last 20 years, of a wishy washy, kind which Labour (who rule) have not really used at all. Devolution was intended to deal with "funding health and social care, low productivity and investment et al " and could do so. Blame the Parties, not the system. Brexit meaning "funding health and social care, low productivity and investment et al" are not dealt with? The small-minded liars, misers and bigots who ran the Leave campaign got lucky and got a small non-binding majority vote for Brexit. And they have imperilled the futures of my 4 children, though many Brexiteers are brazen enough to say they don't care. If Labour opposes Brexit, it will stop. But Labour are not coming out and doing the business. As a result, the whole of Wales and the UK is having a nervous breakdown which very much certainly will stop any progress on "funding health and social care, low productivity and investment et al" in Wales. Get angry about Brexit, T.Frontiersman, not Devolution. Get angry with Labour, not Devolution. Properly done, Devolution should release energy and improvement for Wales. Good Constitutions can do this. See following post

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Jonathan Edwards

Right, back to law and order. Point one - if Wales were a US State like North Carolina (or 49 other States) Wales would run the lot. Lock, stock and barrel. Law, police, courts, prisons - the whole caboodle. Wales would be about average size as US states go, so don't give me the "too small" argument. As well as running its own laws, Wales could accommodate UK/EU law as well. And if Wales law differed from England law, across the State Line (border) it is no problem at all. Has worked well for 230 years in the US. Don't let anyone tell you it couldn't work here. It could. Anything else is scare-mongering. But we are not there yet. We need to think about transitional arrangement. Here is a list. Courthouses - easy. Transfer the buildings to the Wales Government, "Crown Estate" for Wales. They're only buildings. We keep open the ones WE CHOOSE. Could ditch the rest. Police Forces - should be easy, but watch out. All 4 Welsh Forces have agreed on there being a single Welsh Force at various times. So why is there any opposition? Because there is. the Home Office can't bring itself to lose power. And a lot a Brits seem to think that if you devolve policing the Queen will be raped in her bed or the Thames will run dry or something. Whatever it is, its not rational. Police forces can collaborate after all. Judges - in the common law system throughout the Anglo-Saxon World, Wales is about average and has a full quota of Judge Talent. (current Lord Chief Justice, Supreme Court Justice just for starters.) But you will hear it said that somehow they're second rate and need English blood to keep them up to scratch. Sorry, but this is more "Queen/Thames" nonsense. Writing down Welsh Laws - Hywel Mosely says he can't find out what Welsh Laws are. (I don't quite believe him because as ex-lawyers go he is VERY smart. He could find them.) But actually many people and other lawyers do agree with him. Publishing the full Code of Welsh Law would not be difficult. The North Carolina Code is easy to find on the web, and very neat. The real problem you see is NOT that it would need a little bit of money, a couple of scholarships for the people who understand the work. The problem is more creepy. There are a lot of people in Wales who are not particularly keen to make Welsh Laws clear and easy. Because where would it lead? Yes, " the Queen will be raped in her bed or the Thames will run dry" or something. More irrationality, see? Passing Welsh Laws - yes the Assembly could pass them all. Personally, I have a problem with the unicameral system, aping the House of Commons. No sensible legislature works this way. None of the 51 in the US do. Bicameral please. But the Assembly could do it. So how will we deal with this? Pay no attention to Leanne Wood when she belittles the Commission on Justice in Wales. The underlying problem is ignorance and this is what the Commission will address. My little list (above) will be gone through with overwhelming detail. And authority, which it what really matters. The strange people who think that the world will come to an end ("Queen/Thames" etc) if Wales establishes its own jurisdiction will be buried. With facts. And logic. And sunlight shone into some fairly gothic darkness. And when the Commission has given this to us on a plate? Yes, we will have to get out of our chairs and demand it. It will be down to us. And we have 800 years of conquest and subservience to overcome. We must do better than the 25-and-a -bit-percent of 1997 and take what we need and what is ours.

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Here we go again! Can we put up with Arfon Jones yet again doing or saying what is right for Wales?! And do nothing ourselves?! Seriously though, at a time when we have few people in authority or who should be representing us and stand...

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