Report criticised for calling Wales' national museums 'too narrowly Welsh'

Wales has played a part in global events but it isn't the British empire I am thinking of. It is the movements and campaigns for social values to shine, against slavery, dictatorship, war and for cordial peaceful humanitarian values between nations.

This has Iron Ring Skates hands all over it. They are trying to abolish Wales and her hostory. Yesterday they were turning Cardiff into Suburb of Bristol!

I’m not sure that colonizing the world is something to be proud of!

What another blood boiler! A classic example of the latest attempt to airbrush our history, as an unique nation, out of existence. It's pretty obvious what the game is, and it's not a new technique (for Cymru you can substitute any number of colonised countries that suffer the same fate). Anyone who does not see what is going on is either sleep-walking, stupid or couldn't care less. Skates' comment sums up the role of the Brit-Nat parties at Y Senedd, in it's complicity to promote that new country: 'Englandandwales', and which is actively encouraged by our media and Brit-Nat propagandist press, dominated by The Trinity Mirror Group. How much longer can we survive this kind of cultural and historical onslaught? We need to drive out these alien English parties, that are regional branches of their HQs in London. Inserting the word 'Welsh' in their names is nothing short of a patronising insult to our intelligence as a nation. It's become a case of either wake up and fight back or just lie down quietly and be exterminated for good. Anyone who votes Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem and - God forbid - UKIP in Cymru, should hang their heads in shame. The alternative (Labour's Little Helper in The Bay) does not have either the backbone, or the teeth, nor the inclination to do anything about it, being more concerned with political correctness, trans gender issues, women's rights campaigns or lighting candles for peace vigils for overseas events that they have no control over, instead of focussing on Cymru. It's a depressing outlook. However there is something totally new and exciting standing in the wings. They WILL fight tooth and nail to right these wrongs with no fear of political correctness, respect for old fashioned establishment parties, or the establishment itself. The 'old brigade' have had their day. There is a totally new rule-book of engagement being written - as there is all over Europe and the rest of the western hemisphere, where people are waking up and saying "enough is enough". These new parties (disparagingly called 'populist' - although the dictionary definition of 'populist' is: "a member or adherent of a political party seeking to represent the interests of ordinary people") will sweep aside the politics of yesteryear and replace it with something that benefits US and not imperial powers, banksters, elite globalists or those that seek to control every aspect of our existence and everyday lives. It's not 'pie in the sky' check out the phenomenal successes in breath-takingly short periods of time since these new parties have been in existence. We can join that list here in our country - ours alone. We are not 'too small', 'too poor' or 'too stupid' (as others would have us believe) to take back what is rightfully ours and gain freedom through independence.

Thurley Review of Amgueddfa Cymru It seems that some of this Report has a 19th Century ring to it, and could have been written by the authors of the famous “Llyfr Gleision” Report. Paradoxically it is very valuable as we can, in the light of it, appreciate how our Museum managers have managed to shrug off the stunted “League of Empire Loyalist” mentality that is crippling so much of English intellectual life these days. [Shades of Evan Davis and “Newsnight”!]

Seeing as Labour in General do not consider that Wales has a History before the Industrial Revolution no wonder the Minister thinks it is a balanced, thoughtful and impartial report.

Isn't the Museum the National Museum of WALES? Not greater England.

Do not be narrowly Welsh. Wales is narrow. The world is wide - it comprises England and Scotland, but apparently not Ireland. Please learn your place in the world, Welsh people. Listen to what Mr Thurley says and learn. He is superior to you.

So let's invade England, loot Hereford Cathedral, and put the booty on display in Cardiff. Job done.

...ETHNIC CLEANSING gan y Saeson 'pwysig'....

I worked at a popular visitor attraction in Cardiff for over five years. Most of the visitors from abroad wanted to know more about the Welsh culture (language, accent, sports, art, food and much more) and history... they were already quite familiar with England / Britain. Many visitors were of Welsh descent and came from the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Respectful, wealthy people willing to spend cash here... just the type of tourist we need in Wales. We'd also get a lot of German visitors interested in Celtic mythology, Druids, love-spoons, castles, etc. Then you'd have French people who loved the idea of a stubborn people holding onto their language against all odds. That's not forgetting the peoples across Europe with an affinity to small nations like ours - the Irish, Scots, Manx, Cornish, Bretons, Basques, Galicians, Catalans, Flemish, Corsicans, Friesians and so on. Why would on earth would these people visit Wales to learn about the British Empire? If they want imperialism, London is just a few hours down the road. We should celebrate all that's unique about our country.

Did they commission the report from the former head of English Heritage in naivety of the political nature of its role? On Dr Simon Thurley's own Website, you can see some interesting background on this: http://simonthurley.com/about-me/ http://web.archive.org/web/20130821033722/http://www.simonthurley.com/cv.html "In 1989 I was appointed Curator of Historic Royal Palaces with responsibility for the presentation, archaeology, building conservation and maintenance and display of the six unoccupied royal palaces. In the 8 years I held the post I was responsible for a number of major restoration projects, including the completion of the fire damage at Hampton Court, ..." !! "English Heritage also manages the English part of the National Heritage Collection of ancient monuments and historic buildings." - i.e. he doesn't see Wales, or England for that matter as a nation, just a part of the one 'UK nation' I presume. "English Heritage however was at the bottom of the pile as far as Labour priorities were concerned and we were cut every year financially. We fixed our hopes on the Tories getting in. " Although most of us probably don't agree him, he does seem straight-talking in his own way.

Wales' 'contribution' to the British Empire needs to be acknowledged, just as the Irish, or any other colonial contribution, but very much within the context of those colonies not having a great deal of choice as to whether they made a contribution or not. Was the contribution of Wales to the war effort in the Great War, (1914-1918) any greater than that of India? Or that of some of the African colonies against Germany's colonies in Africa? Yes, our national museum does need to acknowledge our country's part in the British Empire, but from an anti-imperialist perspective that deconstructs and explains the mechanisms that created, for example, the sometimes toxic situation surrounding Cymraeg, or the very idea that we are a people unto and of ourselves, and not only just a part of an imperialist whole. The whole idea of Britishness needs to be explored, deconstructed and critiqued; our national museum is well placed to do this. I would suggest that the only people being discomfited by our national museum's 'narrow' Welshness are those visitors of a Brit Nat mentality. Visitors from other parts of the world will not be surprised that a national museum promotes the nation it is the national museum of, as that is what national museums the world over are set up to do, except, apparently, in Wales, where over the past quarter century or so we've had to deal with several name changes, largely to appease those who are unhappy with anything overtly Welsh that might offend Anglo sensitivities. When I moved to Cardiff in 1986 it was still proudly the National Museum of Wales, the name given to it when it was officially opened in 1927. At some point in the 90s the rot began to set in and it was renamed The National Museums and Galleries of Wales, and at some point in the early noughties renamed once again as the rather terse and ambigious National Museum Wales, (there seems to be an invisible comma intended between the words museum and Wales, which belies the true intention behind the change of name - it reduces the import of Wales, making it a mere adjunct to the nation referred to in the title, presumably that nation is Britain, or more correctly, England) Indeed, at the time, a (Welsh Labour) government official explained that the change was expressly to avoid alienating people who aren't Welsh, (presumably colonists living here, as anyone else would quite naturally expect a Welsh national museum to reflect Wales). I have a slight suspicion in the back of my mind that this might have been during the period of the One Wales government where Plaid Cymru were in coalition with Labour, and it's perhaps symptomatic that they remained mute on the subject, just as they seem to have nothing to say on the current situation, but as the issue is up for discussion in the Senedd today perhaps I'm jumping the gun a bit, and being a little to harsh in my judgment of our national party. Maybe, hopefully, they'll tear the idea of making our national museum more Brit to shreds, but I'm not going to hold my breath. The name of our museum is an important issue, and I for one refuse to refer to it as anything other than it's original, and unambiguous title, National Museum of Wales. Perhaps we should start a campaign to have that title officially restored. I personally don't care if a few colonists and imperialists noses are put out of joint a little by such an 'offensive' title, as it serves to remind them just where they are, and more importantly, who they are. On the subject of teaching history from a Welsh perspective, I'm fully in favour of that, but as part of that I think it needs to go hand in hand with deconstructing colonialism and it's close relative imperialism, as in that way Welsh people will be able to articulate why they are in the situation regarding their own identity in the present. It most definitely should not be the kind of 'Golden Age' romantic appeal based approach to history apparently favoured by some commenting here.

Amgueddfa Cymru (Amguedd + fa) + Cymru = The valuable property place belonging to Wales.

The irony is, there isn't an actual museum about Wales' history. I took a German friend to the National Museum in Cardiff and he was disappointed that there wasn't anything about Wales and felt he didn't learn anything. We do, however, need to offer more choice. I would love a science museum/aquarium and a national centre for poetry.

Sounds to me like Dr Thurley was an old fossil himself, probably extracted from a pile of bones at the BRITISH Museum. and doesn't understand anything as subtle as the distinction between the 4 nations' histories and cultures. However he worked for the Royal Family so that made him worthy in the eyes of the arse lickers down the Bay.

I mostly disagree with Thurley but also with those who want to completely reject any notion that Wales and the Welsh were complicit in the British Empire and took full advantage of it. If you interpret the whole of Wales from the perspective of a Welsh-speaking village in Gwynedd, you'll go nuts. Probably not a popular thing to say on here, but the Welsh princes took full advantage of English and Norman inter-marriage and education at Oxford and London for centuries. It isn't something that people are willing to admit to but there we are, it's history and it's not pretty.

The corruption of the mind, towards a Union forced and belligerent in its objectives of slavery, extinction of self, integration of the savages into semi decency, attempts to eradicate its language, and customs, extraction of its assets and wealth, robbed of lands , then to reign over us, is the ultimate humiliation to Anglophile its history as if it never had any property of culture or status. You don't. Get used to it . Not far from me lies the farm of Gelli Wrgan in the valley Cwm Clydach. There is an inscription in stone . 'Not my own my Native land ' I wonder if any of this registers. The ransacking of Monasteries and its lands, to steal and pilfer its assets. The colonial mentality is alive and well. Much to the rule of the majority in a so called democracy of a failed Union. They still don't get it. Neither those in the estsblishment in Wales that fawns to the old eras of privilege and customs. They are not ours. Never will be. Those who do live a lie to the dawn of this ancient land. I would support greater extension suggested in a previous contributor of a museum of Welsh poetry, Literature located in sWales, a dedicated museum to our history, perhaps of our contribution to the industrial revolution in social and economic terms, to include the Chartists and Rebecca riots, the Merthyr Rising and Rhondda Riots. Let our history be ever young and relevant but above all uncorrupted.

Who was the idiot who thought it a good idea to commission a report on Amgueddfa Cymru (the Museum of Wales) from a former head of English Heritage? Surely not Mr Skates again? Such a commission amounts to an invitation to adopt an English approach to the issue. Unsurprisingly in the circumstances Dr Thurley appears to have adopted a narrowly English perspective to his work. Since I have not read the report I will reserve the full extent of my indignation until after I have read it; but speaking generally my feeling is that Dr Thurley must have missed the point of having a Welsh museum, which surely must be to explore the history of Wales, not just a narrow slice of it concerned with its interaction with England and Scotland in the British Empire. I have been thinking which of my visitors, from all over the world, would be interested in a museum concerned with the history of the Welsh contribution to the British Empire and cannot imagine any of them being in the least bit interested in visiting such a museum. On the contrary my experience is that their interest has been focused on narrowly Welsh matters. Examples that spring to mind from my own experience are the woollen industry, former industrial sites such as mines for slate, silver and gold, the Eisteddfod and its pecularities, the National Library and its exhibits: all of them Welsh and not concerned at all with the British Empire.

The thoughtful responses from Hywel and Dafis, is a testimony to the wisdom of richness of the patient, to the discovery of the real Wales in its authentic and pure form. Sometimes times ugly, sometimes best to forget, but always ours to keep and cherish. The question best raised by Virgil Kane, in times of hunger, in times when they pulled old Dixie down, is our epitaph of a treachery that exists in the very halls that have the faded decoration of trust. Unbelievable.

Why is Ken Skates defending imperialism?

This is a really poor analysis of what the report recommends. It’s almost as if it has been done deliberately to fit a political agenda. Not unusual for this site, but disappointing nonetheless.

What a waste of money commisioning this person to come up with ideas and all he can come up with is doing the same as what he's accustomed to in England. The English museums do all of this sort of stuff and why would we want to copy thrm. If the French had commissioned him he would probably suggested more on the role of the Duke of Wellington at Waterloo and maybe emphasising the importance of Turner to French art history at the Louvre.

There are a number of worrying trends. In the age of devolution we should see a strengthened and more confident identity but the opposite is happening in several respects. This week Alun Cairns reiterated that his vision for the Welsh economy is a severnside concept that will inevitably make south Wales subservient to Bristol with similar threats in the north Wales/Deeside/Cheshire conurbations. Meanwhile Ken Skates might have been being polite in response Dr Thurley but I fear that it really is another indication of the Welsh minister's lack of ambition, confidence, or historical awareness.

That tosser Thurley sounds like a tory pr!kc. Iasgob Annwyl! Darllenwch Brut y tywysogion, Historia Gruffydd ap Cynan, Trioedd Ynys Prydain, a'r Mabinogi. Good god! Just read Brut y Tywysogion with a lovely translation: good stuff there: how the young Rhys ap Gruffydd (soon to become the Lord Rhys) pushed anglo norman ladders from the castle parapets to prevent the castle being taken (and to kill those awful anglo-normans!): Nice page on Wicipedia as well. If you want inspiration read Historia Gruffydd ap Cynan - again with an English translation by Simon Jenkins. Gruffydd never gave up: he just kept coming back. He was ethnically half Viking and in his history is mentioned using his 'bwyall deufin', double headed ax in battle: he probably saved us from the norman tswnami. For earlier history welded into legend and myth the Trioedd Ynys Prydain are a glimpse into a Northern Britain from Leeds to Edinburgh that was Cymraeg! Rachel Bromwich is the interpreter of these. And to finish off read the Mabingogi realising the myths are the crossover from prehistoric myth and 'theology' into the Celtic Church. Not that i suppose thurley will have read these outpourings of primitive savages.

The shrinking seas, An ocean apart, Those that lap these shores, And sing, Such sweet melodies, Of a lost history, That ages have not healed, And still, even in our places to cherish, The anthem of the Welsh Diminished, By the bars on the wall. And it's shadows That tell all, to remind us, Of the heads of the perished Lying in the Tower, Unsung, And the crow still crows, Even by those of our dignitary, As we eat the entrails Of our sovereign past And alone we stand, With empty hands our fore fathers Unexplained, unfulfilled, still.

Dyma'r link fersiwn cymraeg - http://gov.wales/newsroom/culture-tourism-sport/2017/170907-thurley-review-of-amgueddfa-cymru/?skip=1&lang=cy mwynhau

Air brushed history. After the eventual conquest of wales, edward 1st sent 500 welsh bards to the stake,in an effort to prevent them telling the welsh sbout their history.This effort to push the history of this islands indigenous population to the margins of consciousness persist to the present.Ed's iron ring represents the most extensive and expensive medieval building program, all concentrated in the tiny nation of wales in an effort to prevent the recurrence of 2 hugely expensive military campaigns against the welsh.So,wales has more castles per head of population than anywhere in the world.To say we were punching well above our heads is a huge understatement to say the least and wales still stands,despite suffering hundreds of years of continuous relentless aggression from foreigners. How we managed this is omitted from so called British history, which is written solely from a foreigners view point-the Romans saxons and normans. This intellectual ignorance and arrogance of indifference still exists today and is encouraged by the English establishment, it's press and within academia.Brainwashed academics clamour to unearth roman or saxon artifacs and discount anything that is British (welsh ).we are allowed to have roman saxon and norman periods,but never an indigenous British period. In 1866, Bishop Stubbs declared that pre saxon history was worthless and his views still resonate today via the school national curriculum. Stubbs referred to the welsh as,"lesser breeds " and championed a germanic version of history which suited a victorian master race ideology. Stubbs political motivation to accend the greasy pole by heaping praise on the new German monarchy was successful. The hanovers,from a place the size of the ilse of white who interbred for 200 years with minor royals from tiny German states,somehow made it all the way to the throne and so the legacy of the welsh is ignored and airbrushed from view because the English establishment do not want the truth to surface. Some airbrushed history Maxim Wledig and his brothers went to rome in AD 383 and conquered the city and for a few years ruled the western world Wales can lay good claim to having the oldest unbroken christian heritage in the world with the oldest British cathedrals.Our earth saints pre date the roman church of england by hundreds of years. While the rest of Britain and Europe lived in the so called dark ages,wales enjoyed an age of saints.wales had an honest at least 150 years before the English were christianised and this Christianity was far nearer to christs teaching than the roman version adopted by England. Britain gave Ireland christianity The brits were not civilized by rome,they had been here for millennia and had built a civilization that made some of the earliest permanent structures.-older than the pyramids. Many priceless artefacts crafted in gold during the bronze age were initially dated to the dark ages as they were considered far too ornate to be dated before the romans civilized us. We were skilled in astronomy, mining metal work and agriculture - gold mining in wales pre dates the romans who are wrongly credited for establishing the mines. Oh, by the way,there were also roads in Britain and the romans mearly upgraded the existing system. Two of the three british legions had to be permanently stationed here as wales never fully accepted Rome's yoke.The silure tribe of south wales inflicted the biggest defeat on the legions in Britain and fought on for generations. When the legions left,the cymru kept the Germanic tribes out for 650 years while fending of seaborne attacks from the danes and Irish. It was not until 1282 that French rule was established in Wales as 1066 had little resonance for the cymru. Anglo saxon england capitulated in the blink of an eye. Wales has real heroes like Owain Glyndwr,Owain Gwynedd and Llewelyn the great and the most civilized laws in the world which were not based on violence and oppression. English heroes are treacherous devious illiterate murderers like the lionheart who only spoke French. William the bastard butcher and longshanks,who invented hanging drawing and quartering.Robin hood never existed and if king Arthur ever did,he hailed from south wales and he fought againt the saxons. The list is endless so lets celebrate our heritage because its far richer than the estsbishment would have is believe.Overwhelming odds have not extiguished us and our battle against the odds is our proud history so lets change the school curriculum in wales and lets teach our young people the truth.

It just gets from bard to verse.Perhaps the idiot who wrote this report would like to read Terry Breveron' s exelent book entitled,"The Welsh a Biography ", to see just how much of the history of the indigenous (Welsh) peoples contribution to the history of this island has been systematically airbrushed from consciousness by the English establishment and the ancademic pupets of the state,the media and press.History did not start with the romans,then the saxons and normans,who were all foreigners to this land.We are still here despite people like the author of this report and his comments only serve to make us more determined to seek out our proud history and heretige. Sooner we change the school curriculum in Wales to teach our children the truth the better.

The mission of the National Museums of Wales was to show the World to Wales and Wales to the World, sidelining it to a mere footnote in imperial history does not do that. What are they thinking?