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Plaid leader hails Wales’ ‘growing confidence’ ahead of march for independence

By Mark Mansfield
Plaid Cymru Leader Rhun ap Iorwerth

Rhun ap Iorwerth has spoken of a growing confidence in the campaign for Welsh independence ahead of the latest pro-independence march in Barry on Saturday.

Speaking before the march, the leader of Plaid Cymru highlighted communities’ growing disillusionment with Westminster and accused the Labour UK Government of failing to deliver on their promise of change.

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'Potential'

MR ap Iorwerth MS said: “I’m excited to be joining thousands of others in Barry today – whether indy-curious or indy-confident – as we celebrate the possibilities of Wales’s potential.

“With recent independence polling moving again in a positive direction, Wales is clearly on a journey and it is up to us as those who believe in our nation’s ability to stand on her own two feet to bring as many people as possible with us.

“As disillusionment with Westminster grows in Welsh communities, we are also seeing a growing confidence that Wales should have the right and resources to decide its own future.

“Labour fought the UK General Election on a promise of change – that promise now lies in tatters. We always knew that the Tories would never give Wales the fair deal we deserve but now it’s crystal clear that Labour never will either.

“Whether it’s the cuts to welfare depriving the most vulnerable of a safety net or the outrageous decision not to give Wales its share of HS2 money, more and more people are waking up to the fact that the Union is both morally and economically indefensible.

“Plaid Cymru has always said that we will fight for more powers not for the sake of it but for a purpose – so that we can properly fund our vital services, so we can grow our economy, and so we can begin to repair the fabric of society which has been torn by more than a decade of Tory austerity.

“I look forward to another successful Yes Cymru march and would encourage anyone who is tired of Westminster’s broken promises and believes that decisions about Wales should be made in Wales to join us.”

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King Square

Several thousand people are expected to take part in the march, which departs from Barry’s King Square at 1pm.

Barry has a significant place in Welsh history, having played a key role in the Cymru Fydd movement for home rule in the 1890s.

Following the march, a rally will be held in King Square featuring speeches and live music.

Speakers include former Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood, Catalan independence campaigner Anna Arqué i Solsona, Plaid Cymru’s Kiera Marshall, Tessa Marshall from the Green Party, and singer-songwriter Eädyth Crawford.

The rally will be hosted by local councillor Mark Hooper, with music by Emma Winter, known from Y Llais, the Welsh version of The Voice.

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36 comments

Jeff

I cannot get on board with one party for this. There needs to be more (new party even). But certainly interested now brexit exposed the idiocy of UK politics. Tricky. Plaid have to convince me, but the door is now open for a chat.

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Llyn

So you want to fracture the independence vote?

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Dr John Ball

Why should a new movement(s) fracture the independence vote? The more the better

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In reply to Dr John Ball

Llyn

A new party would obviously fracture the indy vote. Plaid has about 20% of the vote as it stands. Dividing that up would not help political representation for indy parties and no I don't think there are tens of thousands of indy voters out there just waiting for a new indy party.

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In reply to Llyn

Dr John Ball

Quite simply, in any worthwhile democracy there has to be a choice, invariably based on different political views and organisations. Plaid Cymru sees itself as a left wing party, thus alienating a substantial part of the community who reject this outdated view of politics. In any event, do you really believe Plaid Cymru believes in independence?

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In reply to Dr John Ball

G. Ray Hound

This goes against all of the political evidence. Welsh identifiers are overwhelmingly left of centre. The right and centre right identify as British and/or English and are largely opposed to devolution, let alone supporting independence. You might not like this, and it might not fit your personal political views, but that's how things stand. So what political gains are there in leaning more rightwards? The politically astute move is to appeal to the centre left.

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In reply to G. Ray Hound

Rob

Maybe so, but it is still possible to be right of centre and be pro-devolution/independence. I would never vote for them but if Gwlad and Propel can take votes away from the Tories and Reform and make their case for independence where Plaid cannot then that cannot be a bad thing.

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In reply to Rob

G. Ray Hound

Yes, it's *possible* to be right of centre and pro independence, in theory, but *all* of the evidence shows that it just isn't the case. The centre right and right leaning voters in Wales are overwhelmingly anti-independence and largely anti devolution (and old). To win independence we will need 50%+1 of the votes - but in order to give it credibility we'd need 60% of the votes cast in a referendum. Assuming that current polling is correct and it stands at between 35%-40%. Where are we going to get the other 20%-25%? We could put all of our resources into arguing the centre right case for independence and gain a few percentage point increases, or go for the ones more likely to support. Gwlad Gwlad can do their thing, by all means, but that's not where this debate is going to be won or lost.

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In reply to Dr John Ball

David

I agree with you John. Gwlad is a right of centre party which wants independence for Cymru. Plaid Cymru have made right of centre members uncomfortable within the party (e.g. Guto Bebb).

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In reply to Llyn

And

Plaids vote share isn't growing with Indy support; it's already divided while the party isn't really moving forward.

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In reply to And

G. Ray Hound

Where's the evidence for this?

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In reply to G. Ray Hound

And

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Welsh_independence Which hasnt stabilised but as anyone can see its becoming quite consistent in the high 20s/low 30s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Senedd_election#Opinion_polling As you see here, Plaid polls lower. Pretty much the entire basis of the 2021 Senedd campaign was to pry pro-Indy Labour voters to the party. Of course; we can dispute wikipedia and the polling companies involved because they don't say what we know to be true obv.

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Jeff

No, I don't want to see indy with only one party that is up for it, then they will be setting legislation with other parties out to wreck it. If that makes sense? You need to take the majority of people towards it and with you, not win by default. Hence "tricky". I think.

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In reply to Jeff

Rob

If Wales became independent then its possible Plaid Cymru would no longer exist as it would have served its purpose. Instead Labour in Wales would evolve into a Welsh centre left party, the tories in Wales a Welsh centre right and so on.

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In reply to Rob

G. Ray Hound

Theory and practice are two different things. The ANC have retained power in SA for three decades after getting rid of apartheid.

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In reply to G. Ray Hound

Rob

That's because the legacy of apartheid is still felt and still prevalent. Why would the Welsh electorate vote for independence supporting parties if they were already independent? The economy is the most important factor of most voters.

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In reply to G. Ray Hound

Mark

The ANC have also used corruption, intimidation and violence to retain their grip on power. They are not a role model.

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In reply to Mark

Rob

I agree with you. But the Economic Freedom Fighters under Julius Malema are much worse. They are communists who incite racist hatred towards White and Indian people.

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Annibendod

There are othe parties in favour Jeff - Greens and Gwlad. I'm not sure you'll like Gwlad much. Greens have merit but D'Hondt means splitting the Left vote risks letting more Reform MS's in. Very few areas where Greens have a chance of getting an MS. My advice to you Jeff, is go along to your local Plaid branch to get a feel for where they're at. Plaid is a mix of characters, far from perfect but everyone wanting to build Welsh Democracy. All of us see that as the springboard for a maturing Welsh politics with a view to improving our lot in life. None of us are of the opinion that the UK State provides that or even attempts to consider Welsh interests seriously. The majority of us think we should build Wales up from the Left - a socially just and fair nation.

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Wiwergoch

Plaid supporter here. Thankfully the current crop are not as 'woke' as before, the nation of sanctuary overly left leaning attitudes are not popular with the public - unfortunately Plaid is vulnerable to being hijacked much in the same way as YesCymru. Nevertheless, I remain optimistic.

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Dr John Ball

I too sense a growing confidence in our nation, and although I fear there remains a long way to go, we are in a position undreamed of just a few year ago. However, let's be blunt. Ap Iorwerth has, frankly, a dam cheek. The work in raising awareness, campaigning and informing the people of Wales has been because of the successful, hard work of Yes Cymru and its committed volunteers. Plaid Cymru was noticeably silent on independence until Yes Cymru grew, and quietly forgets that federalism remains the party's stated, published aim. Wales deserves better.

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Annibendod

Siarad cachu eto John.

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hdavies15

That kind of response is divisive and destructive. The undecided will see you sniping at a guy like J.B and conclude that the indy cause is still too populated by people wedded to a single narrow view to the exclusion of all else. Being willing to acknowledge that the national cause can embrace a diversity of views and visions is an essential feature to attract the broad swathe of "undecideds".

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In reply to hdavies15

Mab Meirion

It takes all kinds to make a country, even me...!

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In reply to Mab Meirion

hdavies15

You and me both ! Some of these narrow minded blinkered folk really get me going. Time after time they repeat the same old mantra, most of it lacking immediate relevance to the predicament of ordinary people and then cry foul, or even fowl, when the electorate either opts out or votes for someone else.

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Adam

There is definitely more of a common attitude now for indy curious, I think the joke that is the UK has pushed people to look at other options. Plaid do need to do work if they want to convince people that independence is the way forward, so I'm hoping they have a plan to remove the myths that the masses have been programmed with surrounding independence.

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Annibendod

Main reason the prospect of Welsh Statehood is growing is much more to do with the failure of the UK as a State than it is to do with sloganeering on social media. This is very much in line with Tom Nairn's hypothesis (folks should acquaint themselves with it - it's vital reading). It is the same dynamic driving the rise of Reform amongst working class voters. Those people are not lost to the Right. Reform is a mess of contradictions. Rhun is doing a good job in Plaid - locally, we're making progress. Plenty of new councillors in my patch. I vehemently disagree with other commentators wrt Plaid being "too left wing". Go and join Gwlad if you don't like it - as is your right. Welsh Labour is crumbling like a rotten tree trunk. Plaid is best placed to usurp from the Left. I make no apologies for being a socialist and for pursuing democracy and Welsh progress from that standpoint. John Ball can go huff and puff.

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Mab Meirion

I met my Plaid councilor the other day, I was impressed with her energy and enthusiasm for the job, she left me exhausted...

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hdavies15

What job did you have her do ? or did she get you doing some work ?

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In reply to hdavies15

Mab Meirion

Village tabletop sale, a meet and greet then she went off to a Gwylliaid Cochion Eisteddfod in the hills... Because I could not find any photo ID I missed my vote...V to the fatherless ones

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Undecided

In the curious position of agreeing with comments from both sides of this argument. A proliferation of pro independence parties has to split the vote. Gwlad and Propel are tiny and irrelevant. The main beneficiary would be Farage. On the other hand, Ap Iorwerth doesn’t impress. Full of unfunded promises and doesn’t give the impression that he wants to do hard yards.

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hdavies15

Reform and its earlier versions was at one time "tiny and irrelevant". If a toxic ill defined movement like UKIP - Reform can grow then those 2 younger Welsh parties may well prove your dismissal of them premature.

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Undecided

Maybe so in time; but I was commenting in the here and now. Reform profits from voter disillusionment with the Tories and Labour. I don’t see the same dynamic with Plaid v. Gwlad/Propel; but if Plaid don’t make serious inroads at the Senedd election, they should give up. Then there would be room for something else.

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Bryan

The lesson from Scotland is that independence support needs to be cross party.

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Replying to Wiwergoch Cancel

Plaid supporter here. Thankfully the current crop are not as 'woke' as before, the nation of sanctuary overly left leaning attitudes are not popular with the public - unfortunately Plaid is vulnerable to being hijacked much in the same way...

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