'There were no Celts' says Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins in new book

I don't need history, invented or otherwise, to know that the "union2 of the UK does not and has not ever, served the people in Cymru. Nothing will change because the English Establishment never changes... The only real change that can be made is for Cymru to become independent of any rule from the English Establishment or their outriders. End of..

Correct on all but one point. The “Celtic” label was foisted on us by the Empire to make room for the English. Prior to this, even as late as the 1700s we were referred to, albeit sometimes derogatorily as The British. So when the Empire wanted to cleanse our cultures and unify them into one global crime syndicate, they were English. We were Celts. Together were were British, now let’s get to murdering and stealing. interesting that this Englishman accuses us of claiming the unwanted nom de plume as some group victim thing

Yes, the term was used to, 'other', the indigenous native Briton's by the likes of Bishop Stubs and his, 'lesser breed', pre Hitlertarian narrative. This happened at a time when a hugely unpopular Hanoverian dynasty. who had interbred for centuries were attempting to take the throne when other royals on the continent were losing their heads. In an attempt to be accepted, a Germanic master race ideology was championed, so many who now consider themselves as English were lied to so they would accept a dynasty who had no claims to this island. Many have no Germanic lineages. This persists to the present, as any archeology sites discovered are instantly discussed as being Roman Saxon or Norman before a spade has hit the ground . The old royal dynasty's had a big problem accepting that there were royal dynasty's here millennia before any Saxon set foot on this soil. The Welsh are ghosts in their own history.

Sounds about right, and perfectly points out the reason why Wales and Scotland need independence.

How hoplessly ignorant, anglo-centric and paternalistic ... as usual from Simon Jenkins.

Not far off in observation but, as per usual with those who beat the Unionist drum, Miles off in conclusion. Let them speak - the more they do, the more they bolster the argument for seperation.

It's what is now that matters. We Celts share a history of oppression that is more than enough to make us brothers and sisters.

Yet again [[following on from the Janet Teeth Porter comment recently]] these England devoted "half Welsh" types, who feel they have the right to chip in with anti-Welsh propaganda. If Simon Jenkins wants to argue that we natives have been mislabeled, as celts, that may be a vaguely interesting exercise in futile brainwashing / but the fact remains, native Britons ('celts' or otherwise) were here first, remain here, and want independence. Stick whatever ethnic on it, Jenkins, but we're off. Goodbye.

So why is it that linguists classify Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic, Breton, Cornish and Manx as Celtic languages? Is it because they've done their research and understand their subject?

Shows how little research this gentleman has undertaking that he excludes the seventh Celtic nation of Galicia. For years I attended history lectures in London where I was told about the Romans civilising the natives on the fringes - us - before the Anglo-Saxons and Normans progressed society towards the era of the English Kings and Queens and the magnificent Empire. Whenever I mentioned the Britons or Celts I would be shouted down. Little has changed.

So here goes another English Know all trying to rewrite history language and myths they do not know any better. Many years ago on holiday on the Island of Kos 2 English families having their evening meal first slagging of Greece and then talking about a certain English king as they called him my wife looking at me and told me to be quite which i could not take anymore from their rubbish. Just as we where leaving i turned to them and told them the Ancient Greeks where living in cities as far back as 1200 B C the minion civilisation the buildings in Athens where built around 500 B C they gave us mathematics science etc all when the Celts where loving in mud huts and the Anglo saxons decendents of the English living in caves in Germany and as for King Arthur legend he was a Celt fighting the ancestors of the English total arogance and ignorance to which they where a bit put back at my outburst

O am gael gwireddu dyhead Armes Prydain!

Some research into the mental state of some of these "mixed -up" journalists who pop up in the AngloBrit MSM may be justified. Maybe some academic at a loose end could investigate whether the journalists "state of mind" derives from their roots or their conditioning by the society into which they have settled comfortably by now.

If Simon Jenkins is hanner Cymro/hanner Sais he is well positioned to observe the oppression of the Welsh AND the English. In neither case is the national saint's day allowed to be a bank holiday by the powers that be in Westminster. I would be very pleased to hear Simon's take on that blatant form of oppression!

It appears Jenkins has nothing to say that hasn't already been said by others more eloquent and more informed.

Putin tells the ukrainians they 'dont exist' 😢 - and simon jenkins tells the welsh we 'dont exist' 😢. Seems that cultural genocide is alive and well in the 21st century 😢😡

I think Guardian journalist Simon Jenkins needs to do a bit more research before making such bold claims when there's evidence galore not only physical but linguistic too. The Greeks referred to the Gauls and other tribes in Europe such as the peoples of Switzerland (La Tène) & Austria (Hallstatt) as Keltoi denoting a shared heritage, culture language , who worshipped the same deities. Note: Why do the French call Wales & Welsh, not Irish or Scottish, Paid de Gales, which translates as, Land of Gauls (or Celts) because they & we spoke a shared language. And if Simon Jenkins dug a little further would know the native people of Britain spoke Hen Gymraeg & Gaul had shared heritage & language. The evidence is there. The Gauls are gone but we remain. Yma o Hyd, to quote the great Dafydd Iwan. Why do you think Old Welsh speaking tribes of the SE of Britain fled to Armonica in NW France when the Germanic Saxons invaded? Because the Gauls spoke a shared language, culture, and worshipped the same deities as said, not to mention they were also connected by trade too being geographically close to Gaul. And anyone whose often wondered why North Walian Welsh differs to South Walian is because when tribes from Hen Ogledd (Old North) were effectively ethnically cleansed by the Scotti of Ireland who invaded the North West of Britain, later founded Scotland, then either killed or assimilated the Cymry people left and the Brythonic speaking tribes called by the Romans as Picts (painted faces), resulting the Old Welsh Kingdoms of Rhedeg , Alt Clut, , Elmet, Y Gododdin now in modern NW England & Southern Central Scotland being assimilated and those peoples fled to settle in Cymru which was a cultural safe haven, in particular the North. There are manuscripts written by Welsh monk Nennius in 828ad retelling how a Northern leader Cunedda and his people came from Manaw Gododdin to establish the royal dynasty of Gwynedd. Note also: The term Brythonic was coined by Welsh historian & Celticist John Rhys in 1879 and refers to our language & culture. as Britain's. This is likely why you have differences in Welsh spoken in North Wales & South because of the influx of dialects from those various Brythonic Kingdoms of the North and why we call North Walians as Gogs and the geographical region as Gogledd (North). Need I say more.

There will be no Simon Jenkins if he keeps this up

“What they never did was unite against England”, Oh yeah, it happens every time a English team steps on to a pitch

Simon Jenkins fails to mention the Celts of Cumbria(Cymru?).King Davmail,the 'last king of Cumbria' was dispossessed a few years before Hastings.Egged on by the conniving English,Viking intruders weakened King Davmail's army, which then became easy pickings for the English. 'Old Cumbrian' is very similar to Welsh but many place names here in Cumbria are clumsily Anglocised. Interesting summary,Simon,next time you visit the north Lake District think on of our proud ancestors,the Brigantes,who went on the rampage a 1000 years earlier removing Rome's iconic XX Legion totally from the face of this Earth.

No one is saying that there was a single Celtic people, language or nation

When did the "Celtic" fringes ever claim to be one people or one nation with one language? Is that yet another strange invention of Sir Simon's ageing fevered brain? Do some reading before writing and look at things like "Six Nations, One Soul" or the laws of Hywel Dda that show the vast social, cultural and humane gulf between "Celts" and mongrel invaders. (Women's rights 1,000 years before England. etc.) Sir Simon is rapidly losing what little critical faculties he ever had and really does need to be put out to pasture now. He could take that annoying little git Neil Oliver with him.

I must say that the comments on this story are more interesting than the story. Thanks for the education folks I really appreciate it. #IndyWales because we are a clever lot, whether Celtic or not.

Whatever we are called by authors who write in the English language, we six nations have a lot in common regarding culture and language. A case in point is language. All six languages are VSO - verb, subject, object. All six languages have similar systems of mutation. When you say "Nos da", are you speaking Welsh or Cornish? Has Jenkins done a detailed linguistic study? I don't know. I haven't read his book, but by what I've read on this strand, it looks somewhat dodgy. Perhaps he should present his research at the annual Pan-Celtic festival?

They may have been called Britons, rather than Celts, but these people did exist. As he notes himself, all three countries share languages derived from a common ancestral language. Archaeogenetic studies also confirm a common heritage. Of course, Wales is a diverse country today but it serves no purpose to deny or rewrite history just because he is not happy with the direction of travel.

I am surprised any publishers would be interested in publishing such a book as it seems it doesn't say anything new

Too little, too late!

Technically this is known as the "straw man" type of argument. That is, set up a false idea, then knock it down and feel smug. There is no such claim as a united Celtic people. The term 'Keltoi' was used by early Greeks and Roman authors to describe rather vaguely defined northern European peoples. Welsh mediaeval writings called the natives of ynys hon/ 'this Island' Britons. Edward Lhuyd (1706) then recognised a family relationship between several language groups which he called 'Celtic'. It is not true we failed to successfully combine against the Saes/ Saxons, Normans, and then the English. The archaeology of the warleader of the 6thC who is remembered as 'Arthur' tells one story. The reigns of Hywel Dda and Llewellyn Fawr attest to more. So does the Glyndwr success which lasted 45 years into the 1420s and ended in a negotiated peace and pardons for the Glyndwr family. Glyndwr was betrayed by French allies in his grand design, and significantly was so successful his tale has been edited out of the histories. A key issue in the history of Celtic peoples (plural) is a different attitude. The Saes sought to unify and centralise, which ended in the domination of Empire. Celtic peoples did not generally have the same aim to centralise and unify, except when facing a common threat. Inheritance law divided large realms and lordships among a group of sons which stopped the building of long term states. Instead there was a dynamic flux of combinations, alliances, which formed as needed. To say Celtic peoples 'failed' at unity is like saying cats 'fail' to bark like dogs. Howsomdever I dream of a Celtic Federation - which would flourish for a time and then give way to a different type of alliance.

Anglo-Saxons, Danes and Normans co-operating? They were at each others' throats and setting each other up as figurehead monarchs whilst we Celts were unified by a common struggle to retain territory. There was treachery, of course - every society has its pariahs - but to dismiss a common culture as imaginary is not only ridiculous but insulting. How about we stop trying to re-write history in an effort to maintain the vassal status of the Celtic nations?

There is no doubt Simon J has been one of the few voices in ‘ Fleet st ‘ to stand in Wales’ corner on most issues. The attachment to the land of his farther gave him a useful link to draw from. Very much in the moderate David Melding mode of a federal UK his views resinated in the Walea of the turn of the centuary. Wales however of 2022 is a a vey different place. More diverse and more secure in its identity and future. Simon may well be best advised sticking to the ‘ day job ‘ rather than seeking to use an interesting set of views into historical fact.

I'm afraid he's right there are no Celts in Britain see the research of professor John collis et al as well as the work of Graham Robb and while your at it the research of Peter James et al wake up khumry and read the real history of your Nation

The gentleman doth protest too much methinks. No-one has every argued that the Celts were a single homogenous people. But has he never heard of proto-Celtic, the forerunner of the six Celtic languages. Jenkins is a unionist and seems to have been panicked by the fact that, of the four nations of the UK, two of them are headed by parties who want to bring the Union to an end, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Jenkins says that England needs to treat the other nations with more respect. That's what we've been saying since the 1960s and look where we are.