Why the Welsh independence movement needs Labour supporters to win

of course we need Labour party members and supporters to "switch over". Best if they dump the UK Labour party with its inherently Unionist view of life and set up a brand new Llafur Cymru leaving all the old baggage behind. Fresh start with an honest appeal instead of the highly ambiguous version that is now running things in Cardiff Bay.

Excellent article. As a Plaid Cymru member I fully accept that the independence movement needs to respect and work with supporters of other parties, including those who are currently indy-sceptical or sitting on the fence. Much as I'd like my party to win every election, when we finally achieve independence it will have been a cross-party initiative.

It's very important not to say 'the Labour Party'. Westminster Labour is quite distinct and separate from Welsh Labour and the poor fragment of Scots Labour. Welsh Labour will back Home Ruke, federal UK, and independence, given the chance. The choice looks different in the crux of an exciting referendum tamely answering a What if? question. That excitement/ passion will sway many.

The indy movement will need those from the right as well as left to succeed though.

I have tried joining for the last week. The Labour website has an error on all the Join pages.

Have to say im not aware of anyone in the welsh indy supporters who thinks we dont need labour voters - indeed the growth in support for welsh independence among labour voters in Wales has been one of the most encouraging political developments of recent times. But the fact remains they wont bring welsh independence any nearer while they continue to vote for a party which remains a 'regional branch' of the uk labour party and who's leader in Wales has repeatedly attacked welsh independence ☹️ https://nation.cymru/news/independence-would-shut-us-off-from-the-world-says-mark-drakeford/

Llafur needs to break away from a disastrous English Labour party. Our First Minister, Mark Drakeford, has shown he has the necessary skills to organise an Independent nation called Cymru. Get rid of the YOKE of Westminster.

We have to face the reality that upwards of 30% of our electorate vote Tory. We cannot afford to shun support from that quarter either. Tribal differences need to be set aside and the focus must be locked on to the cause of independence. Other issues can then be decided in a truly Welsh context, rather than being dictated by Westminster.

Yes, Wales need all the votes it can to make our nation the country it could and can be. Prosperous , outward-looking & inclusive. This will never happen if we remain prisoner of this false British Union of one that imposes itself on Wales like a dirty old man would a young child. And if Labour supporters happily aided England by voting for Brexit, can & should do the same for Wales by putting our interests first for once by supporting our cause of an independent Wales free of Tory tethers. Also, seeing we're out of Europe and there's an end to freedom of movement, Labour Brexiteers cannot blame the EU for our economic problems now. Point your fingers towards the Unionists who control us from London still. It's they who hold so many powers & levers that could transform our nation denied. And instead should focus their time & effort on fighting them. It's they who are the real enemy of Wales & Welsh people. Whitehall and Unionism. #YesCymru #Ymlaen

Nobody is disputing this to start with, so why are people banging on about it. ITt's obvious to all and sundry. The independence movement needs all colours on board. What the non partisan movement does not need is the likes of Harriet and heR Labour /Undod friends tryiNG to make Yes Cymru a Labour vehicle. This LADY Was the engagement officer employed without the post being advertised, and who never ever engaged with one group.

Whilst I welcome Labour supporters and others changing their minds about Welsh Statehood nothing is going to change until Wales votes for a majority of pro-independence parties at the Senedd and amongst our soon to be reduced to 32 MP's. Neither Welsh Labour or HQ support Welsh independence. There is lukewarm motioning towards federalism or "Home Rule." That is the official line and to be fair they have something of a mandate for it in Wales at least. If you are in favour of Welsh Independence a vote for Labour is a wasted vote. Activists might feel that they can push Labour towards independence but that's up to them. So long as independence is off the Labour manifesto the pro-indy electorate can vote for another actual pro-indy party. Right now the biggest pro-indy party with any chance of beating Labour is Plaid Cymru. Independence is in our DNA. If you want independence then you need to vote for it. Imagine what electing a Plaid Cymru majority in the Senedd and of the 32 MP's would do for Welsh independence - rocket fuel! Until Labour join Plaid Cymru's position on indyWales, voting Labour just helps Labour - not independence.

If Labour voters really want Welsh independence then they only have one choice: to vote for Plaid Cymru. Unless and until the Welsh branch of the Labour party breaks free from the English (Unionist) Labour party and formally adopts Welsh independence as policy, then a vote for Labour is not a vote for independence and never will be. So, if you're a Labour support (as I once was) and you want independence then make the switch and support Plaid, just as Scottish Labour voters switched to the SNP. For a start you'll probably find that Plaid more left wing then Labour, especially English Labour now that Corbyn's gone. Otherwise stop wasting everyone's time and getting our collective hopes up by pretending you want independence when you don't. I suspect that many of you are secretly hoping for a Labour renaissance in England and Scotland and don't really want Welsh independence.

Simple question to the author - if you lived in the Rhondda would you vote for the ultimate labour unionist or someone who put Cymru first?

Interesting article, and fully support the principle that within Labour voters, there is a genuine desire for independence inc some Welsh Labour Members, but the hard reality is that can Welsh Labour afford to go it alone without the massive financial clout of the Trade Union movement behind it, To wait for Welsh Labour to support wholeheartedly Welsh Independence is akin to waiting for the second coming , Labour advocates need to ask themselves whether Labour or Plaid Cymru has the attainable vision to deliver an Independent Wales built on Socialist values.

Those on the centre and centre-right also need to be drawn in. In Inger-lan' (a long, long time ago) I would vote Conservative. Since returning in 1999, I have been solidly Plaid. Why? For Wales. As CV-19 has shown, we are different. We do have an idea of society. I know there are a lot of right-leaning people who are at least Indy-curious. After all, a democratic nation need a spectrum of opinion, it needs engaged debate. David Melding is an excellent example of a solid Conservative who has profoundly challenged unionism. We need to build a big tent if we will ever reach 51%.

I find it amusing that 9 people have disapproved of my comment about the lagoon but no-one has challenged its accuracy. You can't achieve success via wishful thinking and misconceptions.