There’s nothing less nationalist than wanting to end the British nation-state

Followers of the Labour and Liberal parties seem to find it easier to identify with the indigenous peoples of America, Australia, Polynesia, India and Africa etc than with those of us who live in Wales! James Fox on Radio 4. “Continuing his exploration of the collision of the West and Pacific culture, James Fox explores how, ever since Captain Cook's voyages 250 years ago, the West has created a myth of Polynesia as paradise and, in doing so, destroyed the riches of indigenous culture.” It is interesting that at times, even Westminster Conservatives have shown more insight into the desire of people to become independent! e.g. 1960:-- In a speech to MPs in the Houses of Parliament in Cape Town, Mr Macmillan spoke of the "wind of change" blowing through the continent of Africa, as more and more majority black populations in the colonies claim the right to rule themselves. "Whether we like it or not," he said, "this growth of national consciousness is a political fact." This “ wind of change” is blowing in Scotland, and I hear the leaves rustling in Wales!

Inability to embrace non-Left views is Welsh indy's core barrier. Rather than accept a new state requires some right-wing values folks would deny they're nationalist out of bias. Nationalism is a conservative thought, and you have not sinned against morality. It's okay.

Underlying - what strikes me at least as! - this shewd exposition is the hard fact that in reality, whether or not you agree with the specifics of Mr Coates's thesis set out here, at this political moment there's actually no option on offer between 'nationalism' and 'internationalism'. The political space for that is absent. The real time choices are between the status quo, which especially currently is a particularly hard-nosed form of traditional British nationalism, and something which has the potential to be different.

So what are you actually proposing Sam? You repeat the hackneyed cliches about global elites, British corruption, mass inequality yadda yadda yadda, what are you putting in the place of the current system. Everyone of your statements criticising the current system can be demolished (eg "the programme of neoliberal reforms since 1970 has never had broad public support". How come a succession of Conservative governments and the successive Blair administrations kept winning General Elections precisely on those neoliberal policies and living standards, earnings etc have kept rising? General elections are where broad public support is vital or you don't get elected!! Dont tell me, . . CIA plot!! I could go through everyone of your broad statements and take them apart. Show us some evidence of your contentions being accurate but more importantly, please outline your tax policy, changes to property rights, system of government (one party consultative democracy anyone?) industrial policy etc etc and explain how these changes you propose makes Wales happier and more prosperous. Then we can see you are not some wine bar socialist peddling discredited pseudo Marxism while enjoying the Malbec probably at the taxpayers expense.

USA is a Nation of States. The UK is a State of Nations. Very big difference, no need to say anymore.

Great stuff, very accurate and factual.

Intellectualizing the 'lock down' when for majority of our people none of it really matters, they are more concerned with SURVIVAL and post Covid 19 the concern will be the ECONOMY and how many of the 'Intellectualizers' are up for working toward ECONOMIC SURVIVAL? At end of the day yes it's Socialism and Internationalism via 'CO-OPERATIVE COMMUNITIES that counts. Welsh Nationalism has failed replaced by the new 'freemasonry' of Y CRACHACH NEWYDD (Eternals) which cares little for a Welsh/Cymric 'SHARED MEMORY, so now our people have more a 'Shared Memory' with English people solidified in a dozen plus ways that cannot be undone! Gethin.

This article makes many good points but devolves into the usual critique of the Westminster system - we agree, we always agreed, what else have you got? Internationalism? OK, let's put that into place in our bright, shiny new natio...oh, we don't have one yet. Further, it is the writer and those who would agree with him that see the breaking up of the union as 'fundamentally internationalist project', so in that particular bubble, it must seem like the whole movement is such. It isn't. Plenty of people seem to want to see indy for a variety of reasons, coming from very different points on the political compass. I fear that trying to hijack 'wanting an independent Cymru' in the name of any given political preference only serves to isolate people who don't share in that vision. It has been heartening to read commenters from a right-leaning perspective back indy, as well as many who seem to primarily focus on non-political reasons or, like myself, are willing to forgo the whole political/economic/cultural arguments regarding the future in order to focus on establishing an independent state first; It is proof that Cymru, when we attain freedom, will have a balanced, adversarial political landscape like all functioning nations. The political left who are pro-indy seem intent on claiming the whole premise for themselves and themselves alone whilst the emergent right seems to focus too narrowly on criticizing their political opposites instead of building bridges (or even just rising above the mire).

Sam makes some decent points here about the real nature of the UK beast that controls us. A haven for global oligarchs and a veritable viper's den of corruption? No doubt about it. But, i'm a bit puzzled by this idea that Wales has got to be part of a kind of internationalist front to bring it down. And that we've got to think 'beyond Wales' itself, for it to be meaningul and purposeful. If Mark Drakeford's intention in that interview was to put patriots on the backfoot as regards nationalism, it seems he has managed to achieve it, if the tenor of this article is anything to go by. Is it really necessary to say that our desire for independence has to be an internationalist aspiration, rather than a nationalist one? There's the usual whiff of utopianism in Sam's article, and a desperation to make Wales's case for national freedom somehow contingent on it having an internatiomalist flavour. It's interesting to observe that Sir Thomas Moore's 16th century book 'Utopia, was actually a devastating social critique of the utopian ideas of his time. And also to remember that the word Utopia actuall means. Nowhere/ No Place, which makes the point for itself really about human nature and human society. GWLAD- the Welsh Independence Party- are an unashamedly nationalist party- and we have no intention to dilute that fact in response to Drakeford's dog whistle politicking. We have no fears in presenting our case as a nationalist party, ,with a broadly centre-right approach, emphasizing the need for enterprise, entrepreneurship and innovation to create the prosperity and success that Wales deserves. We're quietly confident that Welsh voters will be able to recognize a pragmatic, home-grown nationalist party next May, without falling for Drakeford's ridiculous 'look out, Hitler could returm' rhetoric. And we don't think either that they will be clamouring for us to be part of an internationalist alliance before giving us a hearing.

You may be right in that it isn't just nationalists who oppose the British nation state. However you imply that those who oppose that particular state are not nationalists but internationalists. I find that disrespectful for true nationalists who have been the ones fighting against the British nation state longer then anyone else who has come on board for the fight. I welcome all in am alliance to bring the state down regardless of motivations. But as a Welsh nationalist my opposition to said state is rooted in my nationalism and to deny the struggles of the nationalist cause is to deny a huge part of the independence movements history. If you are a part of the movement but don't agree or support nationalism that is fine but don't deny the role nationalists have played in the movement.

Sam, I admire your ethos and that of Undod. The launch of the organisation last years shows us what strength the Welsh independence movement now has. However, I to agree with j humphrys on here, we now have yourselves, Plaid Cymru, Gwlad, WNP, YesCymru and probably others too - all fighting for the same cause. You all need to talk and pool resources , you all want a better Wales - work together, put aside any differences in order to achieve the greater good. If we are to serously detach ourselves from the corrupt Westminster system let's do it together.