Plaid Cymru: A few votes from disaster

Help a lot of Mrs Wood treated those on her side somewhat better when they ask questions.

I'm inclined to agree with the previous comment. Leanne Wood's great strength as a leader was her ability to motivate and encourage grassroots involvement. This time I saw cracks appear that had serious consequences in my own Constituency. Suddenly the Golden Lady of Welsh Politics is looking a little tarnished.

As was alluded to on some of the general election coverage last night, Corbynism has meant Labour were able to easily hoover up votes from Plaid. Should Plaid move more toward the political centre ground? Become more nationalistic? So long as the hard left are commandeering the Labour leadership it makes Plaid increasingly different to distinguish itself from them. In light of everything, I feel it was a good result for Plaid last night but slightly precariously so as this article alludes to. Plaid need to highlight the continued hypocrisy of Welsh Labour MP's abstaining from votes to empower Wales, for instance. Furthermore, Plaid need to step back from any talk of Welsh independence because the electorate are just not ready to hear it at all. Devolution-max and/or a federal UK is what Plaid should be championing for Wales which will be a far easier sell to the vast majority of the electorate. The independence drone from Sturgeon in Scotland has cost the SNP severely and Plaid need to learn from this.

If it comes to rebranding the party I think that it is about time that Plaid Cymru should ditch the awful green and yellow colour scheme (a sort of cross between the Liberals and the Greens) and make it closer to our national flag - red, white and green...............

No, no, no. The critical issue in this election, unlike other elections, is that it was so important to try to get the Conservatives out (or at least reduced) because of the irreparable damage they have been doing and were intending to do, and all the suffering and deaths they have already caused so tactical voting. Next election PC voters will all be back. Really I cannot emphasise enough that this was a unicorn election and not business as usual. PC are doing fine, their policies are excellent, Wood is excellent (and significantly highly regarded in the other UK countries by sensible people). I will continue to support them to the best of my abilities. And I love the colour scheme, fresh and bright colours. Using the Church of Wales flag would put so many people off.

I was surprised that of the two progressive Plaid candidates I followed, one had under 3k votes, the other under 1k, both advocating relevant changes. In my own ward the PC candidate earnt less than at the last election, though hardly no Big names appeared during the election period. The return of the two party system was enabled by websites actively telling you who to make a tactical vote for to topple the Tories. I welcome the YesWales campaign as it legitimises a problematic topic for Plaid which opponents take a prejudicial standpoint to. Logo rebranding is welcomed. Changing Leanne as leader is premature, she has another year or two to equal the average tenure of Party leader.

Independence. Out of the closet.

I would like to see Plaid moving away from Corbyn and towards the centre. As for rebranding colours and other factors, that is not tenable after they have just won a parliamentary seat with another election likely looming in the not too distant future. To change branding between elections so close to each other could be a foolish strategy. If you want to change Plaid's design it needs to be after the next election so we can assess if this election was as said above, a 'unicorn' election, or whether it was a trend-setter for the next election. Regardless, Plaid should also begin holding public rallies and bus people in from different corners of Wales to make them appear larger than they are. This is what Corbyn did, and it worked. There is no point having a public rally with less then a thousand people, however. I also agree with above about whatever is working in the southwest as a model to follow. Rhy agos yng Ngwynedd, mae angen llygad barcud ar hynny.

So it was close. It's been close the other way in the past..Win = bad. Lose = bad. England's media framed this as May v Corbyn. No one else was taking part apparently. But despite this and in incredibly difficult circumstances and tactical voting happening in unprecedented volumes, Plaid Cymru held their 3 seats...and then gained one....Good. Plaid Cymru have made gains in each of the last 3 elections. Welsh assembly, council and Westminster...Good. They have done this under Leanne Woods leadership. To suggest the leader might be to blame is nonsense.

Let's face it this was the most 'British' election we've seen in Wales for years - welsh issues hardly got a mention at all, not even in what passes for the 'welsh media'. Indeed with the election discourse dominated by arguments over the relative merits of jezza and theresa may the election in wales on times seemed indistinguishable from the election in england - it was as if 20 years of welsh devolution hadnt happened. In those circumstances it could be argued plaid did well to add to its number of seats, but that's not to say its results in other seat across wales weren't very disappointing. Regarding CB's point about plaid 'needing to step back from any talk of independence' i'd like to know when he or she last had a leaflet through their door where plaid even mentioned independence? Because i'm afraid i cant recall seeing too many plaid leaflets where independence for wales featured. As for calls for plaid to dilute its historic support for welsh independence and embrace a 'federal uk' or devo max the problem with that is there's already a party in wales which advocates such things - they are called the welsh liberal democrats (and we have seen what's become of them). But on a wider point if plaid heeded such advice and ditched its historic support for independence for wales there would simply be no point in plaid cymru existing. Political history tells us that persuading a majority of people in wales of the case for independence is not going to be an easy task but one thing's for sure - if we stop talking about it or say we no longer believe in it then welsh independence will certainly never happen. And let's not forget a recent poll which seems to show growing interest and support for independence http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/new-poll-shows-surge-support-13105433 I do also think people might be reading to much into the results in Scotland. It seems clear there was widespread tactical voting in a number of scottish seats by supporters of unionists parties to unseat SNP mps. And it was no surprise to see the british media and labour and tory politicians seizing on such results to try and kill off the scottish indy campaign. But the fact remains the SNP still had their second best results ever in a UK general election - indeed if 2015 hadn't happened people would be talking about a near SNP 'landslide' on thursday. That's why i sincerely hope the SNP doesnt listen to mischievous and sinister voices urging them to dump plans for a second indy referendum. Trust me if nicola sturgeon comes out in the coming days and announces the SNP will abandon its plans for a second indy referendum there will be the sound of champagne corks popping in 10 downing street, buckingham palace and other major centers of the british state.

The election wasn't anything to do with Plaid being more/less centrist or nationalist. It was a big tactical vote to get the Tories out. Four seats is fine. Independence should not be the focus, Wales needs more devolution first. But again the election wasn't about that here.

It's only in the immediate aftermath of election campaigns (or when planning the next one) that the size of the majority actually matters. The central - and very simple - fact is that Plaid Cymru now have one more MP than they did before. If your aim was to help Plaid Cymru rather than to sow apathy and discord within its ranks, then a moment of celebration might be in order. The following headline is accurate and refers to the simple headline numbers of MPs each party is sending to Westminster. "Wales Enters A New Era - Plaid Cymru Unseat the Last Welsh Liberal".

Good points raised Ifan. However, 'if this' and 'if that' happened, but it didn't happen therefore, a bit of a waste of the old typewriter ribbon, if you ask me. Without a doubt Plaid need to learn from this, if they don't then your questions will be answered. Perhaps you are right that they possibly need to add some other charismatic people (and from other areas of the country). At the same time it is rather sad if you are implying that personality not policies is all the people of Cymru are interested in! The way anglo-american capitalism has brainwashed everyone into being an ever needy consumers I cannot totally disgaree with you. What I would like to see from Nation.Cymru is more positivity and constructive criticism in a refreshing Cymreig way and not the usual outdate, stale, blame culture of the British.

Why on earth should Carmarthen East have been a "better bet" for Labour than Arfon, on paper or otherwise? Yes, Jonathan Edwards' personal competence went a long way to overcoming any "Leanne Wood" factor, but Plaid is very strong in that area, talking to people in the area they don't vote Plaid just because of Jonathan Edwards, it's because they are .. Well, the sort of people who vote Plaid! What on earth is the article saying with that point? It makes no sense.......

Instead of continuously 'right-on' and 'progressive' (whatever that means) etc....why don't they give a vision of Wales which would resonate with people who live here....well a good percentage of those who live here. How gaining corporation tax powers would enable us to do what Ireland has done and how much employment that would begin. How air passenger tax could make Cardiff Airport greater and the hundreds if not more jobs that would create. How a tourism could be created which doesn't 'kill the host' and will be taxed and how that money could be spent on looking after our tourist sites and heritage. How housing should be built for locals and people we need for our economy ie people with much needed skills.....not for retirees clogging our NHS. How we can develop our Unis to offer all the courses needed for a vibrant modern nation eg Veterinary 'studies' which we don't have.....which is laughable when your consider we are largely a rural nation. How Welsh history could be put on the school curriculum so that we as a nation know our own story which we certainly don't. There are so many simple things which would catch people's interest which aren't complicated but which I hear so little from Plaid let alone the other parties. How we want to be a responsible nation (sorry a bit right wing) where people want to work and largely have work......and those unfortunate enough to be without through ill health or a lack of skills etc are either helped to work or where that isn't possible, cared for. Oh yes, to take some votes off Corbyn, offer a minimum wage of £10.50 per hour. :-)

As a voter in Arfon, my sense is that Hywel Williams' personal reputation as a good local MP and faultless lefty voting record was probably what saved him from the Labour surge that happened in so many other university seats. The Tories lost Canterbury for the first time in about a century, so Hywel holding on was pretty impressive. I'm not saying Plaid don't need to rethink strategy more broadly, they're clearly struggling to break new ground, but I think they're getting it broadly right in Arfon.

Well that was an awful result in Glamorgan / Gwent. Leanne Wood must resign and the party needs a political re-alignment. Plaid needs to become centre-right party that is willing to fight tooth and nail for devo-max. We'd never win an independence referendum, the priority must be to get full power over taxation and to establish a seperate legal jurisdiction for Wales.

daffy2012 hit it square on the head there, as far as I'm concerned. Let's not get ingrossed in soundbite policies or British politics just get down to basics. The simplest, mainly personal and local issues are usually the ones that matter to individual people the most and not national ones. However, we must come together as a nation and that begins with our cultural education, the truth of which has been witheld for far too long. With regard our economy we need to take back everything, look it has been tried for nearly 2,000 years and it has matured the way the Engllish wanted it. It is now disintegrating because it fed the few and didn't consider the many or the planet and its unsustainability is causing the final chapter in capitalism, that is now global, in a final and desperate feeding frenzy for what is left. I hope someone is putting these concerns here and in other blogs to Plaid because, at the moment they are all we have. The more we bicker the more we divide and British Labour and Tory will keep using this until we have been fully assimulated. If you do not believe look at Llangennech with our language and look at place names being changed, there isn't much left really!

This result has been the easiest to spin either way. Anyone who has mentioned vote share to me has had the lecture about the FPTP system and Plaid's fantastic understanding on where resources need to go, thus ensuring wins where things were close and increasing seats on a night that the Greens made no gains and SNP, UKIP, Tories and LD (in Wales) all lost out. The easiest comparison here is with the SNP. Although the media will point to the lack of hunger for IndyRef2, anyone with an ounce of sense understands that this shift occured due to a sharp polarisation of the Unionist/Indy issue. Tories didn't fight where Labour could win and vice versa, Lib Dems clearly voted for the Unionist with tbe biggest chance of winning, while a 13% vote drop for the SNP lead to a nearly 40% drop in the number of seats. This is interesting because UK media has made the news coverage clearly (and rightly) about seats for the SNP but if we want to talk about vote share to prove that this has not been a good election, it gives the impression that it is actually quite difficult for the success of a campaign to be measured with positivity, hence your headline not really fitting the occasion. Plaid Cymru matched it's best seat haul in the face of the most British of elections. Very rarely have I witnessed so many people in the valleys asking the question "what's the name of the person I've got to vote for to vote for Corbyn again?" I could have told Plaid weeks ago that it wasn't happening around here. I work in BG and saw political facebook statuses and comments, pro-Labour, from people who have never been interested in politics, let alone experts.So again with this rise in voters and the Great Lend Your Vote to Labour Scam, which has amazed me personally, the vote share issue is understandable. So a great night for the tactically astute Plaid Cymru? Although that's how I'm putting it across myself it's a resoundong No! At two o'clock I was shitting myself as we were about to be down to two seats. And the reasons need to be clear as to why Plaid Cymru have not made the significant ground that we need to to be relevant. 1) We seem to only want to attack UKIP and the Tories. For some reason we want to be seen so like Labour that Labour voters might like us and choose Plaid over them. Not happening. Have a crack at the Labour Party, their record in Wales has been consistently attacked by everyone else. 2) Get people out of the habit of attacking the Assembly, simple campaign. Blame the party running it for 20 years. 3) Have a positive vision (please) even after Brexit. 4) Talk about the natural resources and what we could do with them. 5) Only let reps who will inspire take part in the TV debates. We have never had this much exposure and are not making anywhere near enough of it. 6) change leader. We need someone abrasive who will get the electorate fired up. Leanne is fantastic as a politician and is hugely admired by the constituents she represents. But Adam, Rhun or Jonathan would do far better. Or go for someone who would really stir things up, we have a really good one of them in Cardiff. 7) Plain simple talk for an electorate who appreciate that sort of thing. Sorry to take up so much space, wanted to get that off my chest.

Leanne Wood has delivered more seats at each of the last three elections. This is the first time in 25 years that Plaid has made net gains in seats at a Westminster election. Her opponents on the right try to ignore these facts, but they cannot deny that she has delivered results. In the face of a massive UK-driven squeeze on all parties other than Labour and Tories, she and her team have done well.

Tactical voting happens at every election of course, but I got the impression that (biased) tactical voting websites were being used more than ever before to Plaid's disadvantage. Remainers joined with anti-Tories in voting Labour in huge numbers. Exposing the truth about these websites is a must for the future. Those here talking about a move to the centre, how is that working for the Lib Dems? And a question to those talking about a move to the centre or the centre-right, what are left-wing Plaid supporters and voters supposed to do. Accept it and hope for a social democratic Wales once we get independence or turn to Labour? I think the latter is more likely for a large number of supporters. There have always been those within the Party who wish for a move to the right and every now and then they see their opportunity.

Has no-one here taken on the fact that the high Labour vote in Arfon was due to the Bangor students who voted Labour even though they are temporary residents? Its a new sort of English colonialist invasion though I am sure that they do not see it that way because they have no connection to the place that they are voting in

Decline in vote of 16,000 nationally over 2015..and less people voted Plaid than in 1970. However you dress it hard left or otherwise, people will not vote for a party which really represents the Welsh speaking minority...a minority in real terms which is free fall decline. Children in Welsh schools rarely go on to establish welsh speaking families.