Wed, 22nd July Cardiff 21°
Nation.Cymru wordmark
Advertisement

Opinion

Now’s the time, Mr Drakeford

By Mark Mansfield
Mark Drakeford

Ben Wildsmith

It’s natural to compare the Welsh experience of devolution to that in Scotland. As Celtic nations that dress reliably further to the left than England, we have much in common. Where we differ, however, is that Scotland has, in recent years, managed to project an existential threat to the union.

For a while there it seemed almost assured that flashing a blue passport at Carlisle would be a chastening experience for us here. How that has unravelled in Edinburgh is beyond my remit, but equipped with a tinfoil hat, I could advance a theory or two.

Instead, let’s look at the wider picture. With Scotland temporarily in recess, the devolutionary problem for Westminster is Sadiq Khan in London.

[mid-content-banner]

Unapologetic

Bit by bit, and seemingly in defiance of his party leader, Khan is positioning London at the vanguard of progressive governance. It has been telling that his defence for ULEZ charges has been unapologetic.

Where a cautious politician would have confected an economic case, Khan has stood on principle and written a book on the importance of air quality.

Here's today’s Mail on Sunday channelling Goebbels to show how well that has gone down with vested interests.

I’m going to assume that you are as horrified by that as I am.  They are saying the quiet bit out loud nowadays and that means they are rattled.

The most meaningful point of difference for Wales in recent years was the handling of the pandemic.

During that period Mark Drakeford carved out a UK-wide profile and seemed a world away from the panicked confusion in Downing Street. Whether what he decided was right or wrong, he took it seriously.

Not so his constitutional responsibilities now. The First Minister has shown enough of his hand that we know where he stands.

Over the years, he’s advanced federalist ambitions and gone as far as to hint at the unthinkable: that the Welsh Labour party should be self- governing.

In the autumn of his political life, he should be standing up for these sentiments fearlessly. Whether we push further for independence or not, that’s an argument we should be having from a position where our self-determination is unquestioned.

Nobody in possession of self-respect, regardless of loyalty to the UK, should accept that matters like transport should be remotely decided. We live here; therefore, we know what type of train line we need, right?

Westminster politics are an international disgrace; a farce that elicits giggles from waiters when we go on holiday. I’m Welsh, we plead. Don’t lump me in with them.

So, Mr. Drakeford, you’ve told us that devolution is the way for years. Let’s hear you telling them the same thing.

If Wales is viable in the union, we can demand things, can’t we? If we’re being disadvantaged, we should be a problem, if we’re leading the way we should be terrifying the Mail like Sadiq Khan’s London.

Khan has the advantage of being right there in the face of Westminster. Those MPs must navigate London and the democratic decisions its citizens have made. Lacking that visibility, Wales needs to be louder and to make a point of it. If Westminster charlatans are lying about our NHS to excuse their betrayal of their own, we should be heard.

If we are paying for somebody else’s train ride, we should be heard. If our farmers are disadvantaged by Brexit, we should be heard.

If devolution works, Mr. Drakeford, and you’ve been insistent that it does, why can’t I hear you?

For the price of a cup of coffee a month you can help us create an independent, not-for-profit, national news service for the people of Wales, by the people of Wales.

Get more trusted Welsh news

Choose Nation.Cymru as a preferred source in Google News to see more of our journalism.

Choose Nation.Cymru as a preferred source in Google News

21 comments

CJPh

This is the advantage of being a Liberal rather than a progressive/SocDem/socialist: I try to see the merits in other ideological positions, and where they go wrong. to that, I believe Mr. Wildsmith fundamentally misunderstands the motivations of the more populist right wing. It isn't that they fear progressivism, or diversity for that measure. In fact, the grassroots of many populist right wing groups look increasingly more diverse than the incredibly white left wing think tanks. It's disgust. The Right, especially pronounced with the identarian far right, has always been motivated by disgust over fear, shame, profit, honour etc. Secondarily, they tend to really hate bottom-up collectivism. This is borne from a belief in elite theory. Big Government = bad... except when it blasts out messages about cultural/national/ethnic unity, then the government/the dictator/the Doge can be as grossly gargantuan as you like. Both far Left and far Right have a rather warped view of the concept of freedom. The Left changes the definitions of terms and adds so many qualifiers (not out loud of course - The "Democratic" Republic of Korea etc manages to dupe more people into believing that they have established real democracy than one should be comfortable considering) that their claims can be taken at face value or, when challenged, sophistry can do the heavy lifting until Utopia (never) comes. The Right are a good deal more simple: they see freedom as the final gift bestowed upon society if you follow all their rules and don't ask any questions. Even then they may conclude that you do not deserve it, peasants. Sometimes, if your food smells a bit different or your God has too many arms, the rules don't apply to you. Or rights. Without due consideration of the primary motivations of the Right, the left, moderates and Liberals run the risk of allowing the extreme edge to dominate again. Tolerance is one thing, ignorance is far more dangerous. On the issue of Drakeford's relative silence on our "constitutional" situation: he doesn't want to keep pulling at that thread, especially considering that Labour have established what amounts to one party rule in Wales. He may risk unravelling the flimsy ball of yarn to reveal that a free and independent Wales lies at the end of it. The slippery slope ceases to be a fallacy when it's simply true. Most pro-devo, pro-federalism, Devo-max Labourites need to be asked 1 question: Would you rather your preferred form of governance in Wales be won only if you knew 100% that it'd lead to indy, or to revoke the 1998 Government of Wales act altogether and return to being simply a constituent part of the UK? I hope Drakeford would choose the former. His positions, policies and utterances over the last few years would point to the latter.

Reply
Annibendod

Political affiliations and views don't fall into neat boxes in my experiece, except perhaps for the diehards.

Reply
CJPh

Agreed 100%. Perhaps I didn't outline my point clearly enough: The extremes, or "diehards" as you call them, are often the ones setting the drumbeat - asking big, complaining loudly, threats and intimidation. When society is functioning well, they don't really have an impact (this is where the far right tend to fizzle out or dwindle, falling into a sad sort of self-parody and play acting, whereas the far left tend to move into institutions and move the culture rather than direct politics). When things suck, like they do now, they come out in force. People start to listen, both swelling their numbers and, if a given person is already in a position of power/a decision-making position, change things to acquiesce to their demands. Their views, despite not always being uniform, are a good deal more pre-defined than those inside the Overton Window. Plus, even if the extreme have varying positions, they tend to more quickly put differences aside and unite in order to seize power (the left - calling all who disagree fascists/rightists/reactionary, despite relative political position) or attain a unified meta goal (the right - seeing dissent as the work of a traitor/degenerate/subversive). The vast majority of us do not fall into a neat box on political or moral issues. I find that I'm all over the map. In times like these, however, views tend to get narrower, and the boxes get terrifyingly neat. ANd, as we all know: "There's no fun to be had in a neat box" - Prof McMadeupquote-Tojusifymypoint... he's Swiss, I believe. Good bloke.

Reply

In reply to CJPh

Annibendod

Present state of affairs boils down to the rise to dominance of a right wing, libertarian faction within the Toraidhes who have cultivated wedge issues over a significant period of time. All that in the context of 40+ years of neoliberalism. They reached their high tide mark around 2015-2020 then got found out as a busted flush. There's now a political vacuum in place and an even nastier gang of right wingers are trying to fill. On the other hand, there are left wing activists who get muddled up between where the moral high ground is and where their moral high horse is standing. They often deal in absolutes (much as the far right like to) which sadly draws them into sanctimony and moral outrage. One side feeds the other. A good phrase to describe this is schismogenesis - defining oneself as opposite to what the other espouses. A way of pushing oneself into a political silo if you like. Which is ironic from the point of view of the Socialism so many activists espouse, as it places emphasis on what people have in common and unity between people. As ever it seems to come down to the commonalities and unity "I approve of". No, my reaction to your opening comment was really disagreeing with being "Liberal" as opposed to "progressive/socialist/SocDem." I'm sure you'll agree that it is perfectly possible to hold a mixture of those views. From a Political Liberal, Economic Socialist, Social Centrist, Welsh Statist, British Pluralist, Cultural conservative, Constitutional Progressive.

Reply
Bethan

Progressive socialists aren't able to consider other sides of an argument using objectivity and critical thinking now? When did that become a new label to throw at people? 'Progressive' is a word used to describe those with goals for improvement (typically based on evidence, joined up approaches, collaboration between multiple actors and a clear and rational idea about a desired outcome for a wider society. The opposite of close-minded idealism and dogmatic approaches. I haven't heard that and don't really know what you mean. Perhaps you have read too many comments online between rigid idealists claiming to be progressive and right-wing zealots yelling 'wokeness' at anyone who disagrees with them, but don't overthink things. Being 'progressive' means just that. You are working towards progress in some way, shape or form. It doesn't define a person's character except perhaps to say that they're being quite sensible. Especially nowadays when we really have a time limit to get things moving along. I just think categorizing different types of socialists isn't the best way to demonstrate your flexibility and openness to suggestion from others that aren't considered to be in your camp.

Reply
CJPh

For both Bethan and Annibendod: sorry for the long one in advance. Annibendod - Thanks for clearing things up. I mostly agree and need to further clarify. I do not see Liberalism as pre-set an ideology as the others I describe, therefore it affords Liberals the ability to assess merits and pitfalls in a more open way. This is a cursed blessing: it also makes Liberalism inherently weak when allowed to be too open (which it will always slip into at certain points), letting more fixed positions to run roughshod over it. The genius and the stupidity oftentravel hand in hand for Liberalism - take the way that liberal democracy is now the governing structure of every single successful (high life expectancy, decent GDP, high happiness, low levels of of absolute poverty) nations. Amazing, hooray for Liberalism. What about 'Liberal' parties in those democracies? Very few have kept Liberalism as the guiding ideal and, if they have, seldom see electoral success. Yes, many other parties have internalised a good deal of Liberal values into their platforms over the years, but Duw mowr how I'd like to see an actual Liberal party stand in Wales instead of pointing to one liberal-ish policy position spoken about by one AS in a podcast. Once. Bethan - I didn't mean to suggest the socialists, "progressives" and SocDems are incapable of critical thinking, and I'm truly sorry if that is what you took from my comment. I can paint with a brush too broad for the canvas from time to time. In fact, many socialists I have known, alongside many on these very boards, have shown that they are perfectly capable of rational thought and reason. Moving away from a pre-set ideological position when faced with legitimate reasons to do so is another question (it is faaaar easier to convince someone on the far right to leave that way of thinking behind in my experience). I do, however, take issue with your definition of progressive here. There is a well-defined history, alongside a set of political policy preferences as well as an ideological framework that goes along with the term. Your description reminds me of David Cameron's description of "Britishness" - he basically described being a good person, as you have described being a "progressive" as "being quite sensible". I would suggest that the increase in "progressive" forms of thought are exacerbating many of the worst aspects of contemporary society, as it did in the 1890's/1900's and the 1920's/30's. The shift towards scientism (the Prof currently publishing climate science op-eds on Nation actually alluded to Gaia hypothesis in a recent article), transhumanism, anti-capitalism and anti-natalism are all progressive wish-list goals and policy motivators right now. If you do not hold any of these positions, how exactly are you, or anyone, a "progressive"? If you do, then it is more than merely "those with goals for improvement (typically based on evidence, joined up approaches, collaboration between multiple actors and a clear and rational idea about a desired outcome for a wider society" isn't it? Further, can you not see how this oversimplification of ideological pre-sets, alongside what amounts to declaring the position as the "good guys", lead to the exact sort of problem I originally point to in my 1st comment - the baseline motivation in political thought on the far right is misidentified. This leads to an ignorantly arrogant belief that "Hey look, the far right wingers are running scared". They are simply not scared of the left, the left disgusts them. The more we allow the really far left to test fringes, the more they have a point, the more likely they are to go too far. Or are you, wittingly or unwittingly, doing what I suggest the further left amongst us tend to do in changing definitions in order to score points and "advance the dialectic"? I hope not, and I don't believe so - has anything I've said here made sense, and if not, where can we find points of convergence do you think? Diolch am y safon uchel iawn yn eich ymatebion. Mae'r dyfodol ini yma yng Nghymru'n disgwl yn gwell gyda phob cwniad yn safonau'n rhethreg gyhoeddus, wy'n siwr y gytunwch.

Reply
Rheinallt morgan

Nobody in possession of self-respect, regardless of loyalty to the UK, should accept that matters like transport should be remotely decided. We live here; therefore, we know what type of train line we need, right? Yep we need a train that goes to Shrewsbury.

Reply
Rheinallt morgan

Oh I forgot and Birmingham airport. Oh and Manchester.

Reply
Steve A Duggan

Contrary to the article's view, Welsh Labour and the Senedd's policies have rattled some of the London media and it needs to happen far more often. The differences between Westminster politicians, no matter what colour, and the politicians from Wales and Scotland are wide. Westminster is stuck in the 19th century, progressive ideals are just not part of its colonial outlook. As independent countries Wales and Scotland can fully show the people of England what they'll be missing. Progressive politics is what we desperately need to drag us out of poverty.

Reply
karl

you can't compare. Scotland has its own laws and was given a deeper devolution to start with. We are still playing catch up to that, without our own laws, we suffer English interference alot. Wasted Senedd time you might say.

Reply
Bachgen o Lerpwl

Scotland has always had its own laws. Nothing to do with devolution.

Reply
Riki

And we did too! But ofcourse the Britons are the people English call Welsh and when you want what they have you have to get rid of everything that goes with that culture. Our laws, language, our very identity as British too. Then they twist it and give them all back in their image centuries later. They get away with it because most in this country don’t care to know anything about their nations history.

Reply

In reply to Riki

Rheinallt morgan

Henry 7th was put on the throne of England by the noblemen of Wales. WHY? What did he promise them if he became King? He promised them equality with the noble houses of England. That was delivered by Henry 8th. That's the they you are talking about. Wales' greatest dynasty whose colours still adorn its present day flag.

Reply
Annibendod

Hear, hear! However, I won't be holding my breath.

Reply
Annibendod

Labour fans out in force here 🤣

Reply
Gareth

I sometimes think our Gov are afraid to call Westminster out on things like rail funding , take them to court, if England Scotland and N Ireland are getting money, why not us? It does not help when Labour MP's speak out against us, re devolution of justice, Labour here should be autonomous and tell the MP's to back them or shut up when it comes to devolving more to the Senedd, afterall the people have voted more than once for more devolution.

Reply
Wrexhamian

The FM's in a very difficult position. The contempt with which he, and the Senedd, indeed Wales itself, are treated by the UK Government, suggests that the tanks would be on his lawn quickly if he adopted a more rigorous defence of the country's interests. The. 'national' press would be giving him a good kicking. He can expect nothing good from these people. He might have more success by threatening to make Welsh Labour independent of UK/English Labour, giving no guarantee of support for a future Westminster Labour government unless Starmer gives him a written guarantee of something approaching devo max.

Reply
Y Cymro

I find with Mark Drakeford he cries foul then sits on his hands and does absolutely nothing assuming his Labour master in London Keir Starmer will draw up on his donkey like Z-list Zorro to save the day. He won't. But this question needs answering? Is Mark Drakeford having discussions with Starmer to get reassurance that if & when he PM Labour will devolve powers denied to Wales that could transform Welsh society democratically and economically All Starmer craves is absolute power. England will be his prority not creating a more fair inclusive Britain where all four constituent parts are treated as equals. Not in his or Labour's interest. Recently Starmer stated if prime minister he would continue with Conservative policies if elected. So it's highly likely he will continue with their Wales-only policy of denying devolution already enjoyed by Scotland, England & Northern Ireland. After all, didn't Keir Starmer say that he'd return Welsh Government administration rights over our structural funding that was taken by the Tories when they introduced their Shared Prosperity & Levelling up bills cynically done to interfer with devolution. That all we are worth? Having control over our begging bowl. It seems that all Starmer cares about is ensuring Wales remains forever a poor relation to Scotland, Northern Ireland and England. Personally, I see no real democratic change to our fortunes under UK Labour rule at Westminster. Welsh Labour can be fantasists, and believe Starmer will save the day, but less we forget we only have a Senedd Cymru because Plaid Cymru forced Welsh Labour & UK Labour's arm in coalition to hold a legislative referenda in 2011 that returned Welsh Law after a 619 year hiatus . UK Labour at the time of agreeing the legislative a referendum were months from being evicted from office. And it's highly likely that they only agreed to give the Senedd the greenlight to the referenda due to the incoming Conservative government hostile to devolution. The problem we have in Wales is that we vote for parties that don't have our interests at heart. We elect self-servative Labour & Conservatives MPs to represent our interests at Westminster but they often end up feathering England's nest and screwing the Welsh public purse. That's the reality we face as a people & nation. What Wales desperately needs besides more powers devolved over policing , criminal & youth justice, benefits , crown estate and control over our water resource ... but as important is having politicians elected that serve our needs first not their own..

Reply
Richard

I think we may need just to draw breath a little … The Tory party Welsh Branch under Nic Bourne and guided by the likes of Johnathan Evans, Johnathan Morgan and David Melding moved so far forward on Wales issues it shocked and delighted so many of us. But what happened next ? Nothing but back sliding and reversal of pro Wales positions. Mark D certainly has a well deserved track record on progressive and pro Wales stances on a range of matters but what is around the corner for the Wales section of Blaid Lafur ? Vaughan G ? I think not - no interest in rural, cultural , language issues or anything indeed outside the Cardiff Bay Metro Bubble let alone the Valleys, Dyfed or northern areas ( where ever he thinks we are )

Reply
Alun Gerrard

In my experience the WG has not provided the services Wales needs to provide well paying jobs and better roads. We do not have a proper north to south road. We are not very good at attracting new businesses or supporting the existing ones . The local councils are now a branch of the political parties and they do not represent the community. History has always blamed the innocent and control is the only need.

Reply
Terry Mackie

I really thought this very punchy.. We should have more of this kind of article, witty but also strong in political belief. I think the call for authentic devolution is right. Transport and economic resources and powers. Westminster must broken up into self-governing regions in England to release devolutionary energy and resources first. That will then ensure Welsh and Scots Devolution really means something. I contributed to a 2022 book on this written by 3 Welsh and 4 English. Reforming UK Public Policy Through Elected Regional Government https://amzn.eu/d/3ne9MRv

Reply

Leave a comment

Comments are reviewed before they appear.